File APIs for Java Developers
Manipulate DOC, XLS, PPT, PDF and many others from your application.
http://aspose.com/file-tools
The moose likes Rattlesnake Pit and the fly likes U.N. Resolution 16/18, freedom of expression, and Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Other » Rattlesnake Pit
Bookmark "U.N. Resolution 16/18, freedom of expression, and "...incitement to imminent violence..."" Watch "U.N. Resolution 16/18, freedom of expression, and "...incitement to imminent violence..."" New topic
Author

U.N. Resolution 16/18, freedom of expression, and "...incitement to imminent violence..."

Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8883
    
    5
I guess a couple of years ago Obama and Clinton led the charge to get this compromise with the OIC (Islamic UN block) ratified:

U.N. Resolution 16/18

I'm pretty damned concerned about 5f, and frankly the whole damned thing.

Please tell me why this doesn't start chipping away at freedom of expression in it's most crucial moments?

Please tell me who you think is qualified to decide when a given statement might be an "incitement to imminent violence"? Would the Danish cartoons qualify?


Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
Bartender

Joined: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 11499
    
  16

the right to free speech has always been tempered with 'the greater good'. The textbook example is that I do not have the right to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater (unless there actually IS a fire).

I would think that "incitement to imminent violence" would be along the lines of "let's go kill person X", whereas posting something that might piss someone (or even a large group of someones) would not.

How a judge or lawyer interprets it will most likely be more situational.


There are only two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 40064
    
  28
fred rosenberger wrote: . . . The textbook example is that I do not have the right to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater . . .
Which would cross the boundary between freedom of opinion/speech and freedom to lie.
fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
Bartender

Joined: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 11499
    
  16

Not sure what you mean. I have the right to yell "Fire", whether there is one or not, in my own home. The difference is that in a crowded theatre, yelling it could cause panic, injury, etc. The compelling good of the masses limits my free speech rights.

Truth does not really enter into it here.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61773
    
  67

Here's an example that has me thinking: I saw someone wearing a t-shirt with a picture of an assault rifle and the slogan "When all else fails, vote from the rooftops."

So, is recommending assassination as a political tool "inciting to violence", or is it "free speech"?

[Asking smart questions] [Bear's FrontMan] [About Bear] [Books by Bear]
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 40064
    
  28
fred rosenberger wrote: . . . Truth does not really enter into it here.
I agree that the overwhelming benefit to the many …

But, if you shout, “fire!” at home, everybody there knows whether it is true.
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8883
    
    5
The context for this resolution was specifically aimed at curtailing criticism of religion, and was initiated and relentlessly driven within the U.N. (for a decade?) by the OIC (Org. Islamic Cooperation).

So the question about the Danish cartoons wasn't really rhetorical. In this example, the resolution would call on the Danish government to censor the cartoons criticizing Muhammad. It could be applied also to stopping Neo-Nazis in the U.S. from parading through Jewish communities, and so on.

Another non-rhetorical question is: Who do you think is unbiased and smart enough to judge such situations?

And another: Isn't free speech most critical when tyranny is on the march?

My own take is that - in an imperfect world - we should err on the side of strongly defending free speech.
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 40064
    
  28
Any religion worth its salt can stand up to criticism.
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8883
    
    5
The actual "shouting 'fire' in a theatre" idea was actually part of a bad legal decision, ah well.

XKCD's take: XKCD, free speech
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: U.N. Resolution 16/18, freedom of expression, and "...incitement to imminent violence..."