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SOAP methods in Websphere

Niall McLoughlin
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 11, 2002
Posts: 15
I'm doing some proof of concept work with SOAP using Apache SOAP on Tomcat. I've exposed some methods that do some simple database interogation, and everything looks good.
The SOAP methods are exposed through Apache SOAP admin client. Is it possible to install the classes on Websphere v5.02 and expose the methods in a similar manner ?
I can only find references to exposing Web Services on WAS, and these simple classes don't require the WSDL and UDDI overhead.
Any information would be appreciated.
Regards
Niall
[ February 09, 2004: Message edited by: Niall McLoughlin ]
Kyle Brown
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 10, 2001
Posts: 3892
    
    5
What WSDL overhead? WSDL does not have a high overhead, and you don't need to use UDDI in any case.
The WebSphere 5.0 way is the STANDARD J2EE way (JSR 101, JSR 109) of doing web services. Get used to it -- it will be the ONLY way of doing things in the future.
Kyle


Kyle Brown, Author of Persistence in the Enterprise and Enterprise Java Programming with IBM Websphere, 2nd Edition
See my homepage at http://www.kyle-brown.com/ for other WebSphere information.
Niall McLoughlin
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 11, 2002
Posts: 15
Wow. Passionate reply. It didn't actually help at all, but 10 out of 10 for commitment.
I was refering to the overhead of writing the WDSL, not the runtime overhead.
It was supposed to be a simple SOAP app that would resolve a issue I've been having. We're not a J2EE shop. Apache SOAP was simple enough that I could throw something together.
I tell you what I'll do, I'll install Apache SOAP to Websphere as a web app, and run it through there. That ought to ruffle your feathers.
Regards
Niall
Kyle Brown
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 10, 2001
Posts: 3892
    
    5
Look, I'm just telling you the truth. Web Services are part of J2EE, period. Apache SOAP is a discontinued project. Apache Axis, which is compliant with J2EE 1.4 (JSR 101) is the way to go. WAS 5.02 includes a Web Services engine based on Apache Axis within it.
If you'd like to keep going down the old, non-standard path, then fine. However, don't say I didn't warn you when you have to rewrite everything in a year.
Kyle
Howard Kushner
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 19, 2003
Posts: 361
Originally posted by Niall McLoughlin:
Wow. Passionate reply. It didn't actually help at all, but 10 out of 10 for commitment.
I was refering to the overhead of writing the WDSL, not the runtime overhead.
It was supposed to be a simple SOAP app that would resolve a issue I've been having. We're not a J2EE shop. Apache SOAP was simple enough that I could throw something together.
I tell you what I'll do, I'll install Apache SOAP to Websphere as a web app, and run it through there. That ought to ruffle your feathers.
Regards
Niall

  • Who writes WSDL by hand?!?!?
  • Oh... you're not a J2EE shop... that helps explain!
  • Who needs standards anyways? :roll:
  • I like thrown together apps (customers might not tho')
  • Could you possibly elaborate on the issue you've been having?


  • Unruffled but mildly amused,


    Howard Kushner<br />IBM Certified Enterprise Developer - WebSphere Studio Application Developer V5.0<br />IBM Certified Advanced System Administrator - WebSphere Application Server V5.0<br />IBM Certified Solution Developer - Web Services with WebSphere Studio V5.1<br /><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1931182108/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Developing J2EE Applications with WebSphere Studio</a> my Certification Study Guide for IBM Test 287
    Niall McLoughlin
    Greenhorn

    Joined: Mar 11, 2002
    Posts: 15
    Thanks so much for getting involved. This truly is the bb of champions. And look at all those qualifications. Wow.
    The issue was explained quite clearly in the first post. rtfbb ( or whatever ). It was just a request for information and for all your witticisms, a simple 'no' would have been fine. Or you could have pointed me in the right direction.
    Oh, the horror of not being a J2EE shop. I don't think I can survive the shame.
    As for customers, they were me. It was proof of concept work to try to stave off purchasing consultant time or third party apps. As it is, I'll just go surfing instead, so in the end you've helped me enormously.
    Thanks again, JavaRanch posters.
    Regards
    Niall
    [ February 12, 2004: Message edited by: Niall McLoughlin ]
    Howard Kushner
    author
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Sep 19, 2003
    Posts: 361
    Originally posted by Niall McLoughlin:
    As it is, I'll just go surfing instead.
    Thanks again, JavaRanch posters.
    Regards
    Niall

    I used to surf. Now I study the specifications.
    Scott Duncan
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Nov 01, 2002
    Posts: 363
    Oh, the horror of Niall McLoughlin not coming back to our forum. I don't think I can survive the shame.
    Please, surf elsewhere. Maybe you can actually learn something about Web Services while you are doing it.


    No more rhymes! I mean it!<br /> <br />Does anybody want a peanut?
    Niall McLoughlin
    Greenhorn

    Joined: Mar 11, 2002
    Posts: 15
    Phew ! You lot just won't let something go, will you. Who would have thought such a simple request would get you so fired up. I can't imagine what the fallout would have been if I'd said something genuinely contentious.
    As long as you're all snug and comfortable in your Web Services Gang, I suppose that's the main thing. Is there a hazing ceremony to get in ? To be honest I'd rather have my head shoved down the toilet or get rolled down a hill in a blazing dustbin than have to read those JSRs.
    Oh, and I meant proper surfing, with a board and an ocean. I had a small chuckle to myself at the misinterpretation, given the conversation.
    Regards
    Niall
    PS I don't remember saying I wouldn't be revisiting the forum. It's an excellent resource, and I wouldn't handicap myself just because you took it upon youselves to get smug. Oh, and as for it being your message board, I seem to have been here longer than you.
    [ February 16, 2004: Message edited by: Niall McLoughlin ]
    [ February 16, 2004: Message edited by: Niall McLoughlin ]
    Scott Duncan
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Nov 01, 2002
    Posts: 363
    Oh, and as for it being your message board, I seem to have been here longer than you.

    Yeah, I see you've managed five whole posts. 4 of them on this thread alone. Thanks for contributing.
    As long as you're all snug and comfortable in your Web Services Gang, I suppose that's the main thing. Is there a hazing ceremony to get in ?

    No. No hazing ceremony. Just common respect and some semblence of professionalism. It was you who set this whole thing off....
    Wow. Passionate reply. It didn't actually help at all, but 10 out of 10 for commitment.
    Niall McLoughlin
    Greenhorn

    Joined: Mar 11, 2002
    Posts: 15
    I'm kind of a lurker. I prefer to let the Jonny Come Latelys like yourself answer posts on the forum. Sort of let them earn their spurs.
    I'm sure we could argue back and forward as to whether the first reply on this thread was intended to be helpful or provocative, and therefore who 'started it.' I'd rather not bother.
    As I don't know you, what part of any of your replies do you think would garner respect ?
    The bit where you jump in unannounced in a thread that had run it's course, just so you could get your tuppence worth in ? Or, the bit where you asked me not to come back to your public forum ?
    But hey, at least you're contributing I suppose. It'll give your post count some extra weight that you can try and club the next unsuspecting poster with.
    Regards
    Niall
    Rufus BugleWeed
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Feb 22, 2002
    Posts: 1551
    I'd bet a day's pay to your nickel that Kyle Brown is a busy man. Whenever one can get him to post a reply to ones plea, the grateful are happy for the effort.
    When you've edited two books on Websphere and written numerous articles on modern software we will be anxious to have your opinion.
    In the mean time why don't you delete this thread?
    [ February 17, 2004: Message edited by: Rufus BugleWeed ]
    Scott Duncan
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Nov 01, 2002
    Posts: 363
    As I don't know you, what part of any of your replies do you think would garner respect ?
    The bit where you jump in unannounced in a thread that had run it's course, just so you could get your tuppence worth in ? Or, the bit where you asked me not to come back to your public forum ?

    I am not after your respect. Kyle Brown has helped many of us ranchers over the years both within this forum and outside of it as well. This is why we were quick to do our 'clubbing' as you put it. Although passionant in his replies (especially about WebSphere) he is usually correct and has never come across as being provocative.
    Also, I never said it was my forum. The word I used was 'our' meaning everyone willing to take part in it. Nor did I say 'never to come back'. Come back anytime if your not too busy surfing and have something interesting to say other than criticisms and smug responses.
    Niall McLoughlin
    Greenhorn

    Joined: Mar 11, 2002
    Posts: 15
    As a newcomer to Web Services, I didn't know who Kyle Brown was. After checking out his website, it's obvious that Mr Brown is very experienced, and very knowledgable. I can accept he is also probably very pressed for time, which might explain why his first reply was ( in my opinion ) terse. The fact is it didn't help me in any way. I have no desire or time to read JSRs which explain web services standards at this point in time. I had something working I wanted to pursue it further. Hence the original post. You may have been there yourselves someday.
    My reply to him was tongue in cheek, and he's had the good grace to rise above it and take no further part in this thread. He's probably still busy.
    I've responded directly, in kind, to anyone else who's posted glib comments on this thread.
    Rufus Bugleweed : Good of you to join us. I've offered no opinion. You have, and I'm not interested in it.
    Willian Duncan : Maybe it's normal for you to make disparaging comments, and no-one to respond. I find it difficult not to. Especially when you're so contradictory.
    Anyway, good luck to you all. It's been an experience.
    Regards
    Niall
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    'I may be a doofus, but I'll take on anyone that points it out'
    Kyle Brown
    author
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Aug 10, 2001
    Posts: 3892
        
        5
    Mr. McLoughlin,
    I am sorry if I offended you with my first post. In retrospect it does seem a bit snippy. However, the reason was that I expected a miniumum level of familiarity with the capabilities of WebSphere 5.02. All of the technical documentation and marketing material for that release were quite clear in emphasizing its new web services support based on JSR 101 and JSR 109. I was simply trying to point you in the right direction, rather than in letting you go down a path which has only a limited chance of success.
    You see, you probably won't even be able to install Apache SOAP within a WAR file. There will be classpath conflicts with some classes shared with the Apache Axis that I have previously informed you is part of the base runtime. If you try to solve that by using the PARENT_LAST classloader order, other problems will most likely arise.
    Thus, my first post led you to the only solution that is likely to work in your case, which is to ditch Apache SOAP and write your service as a JSR-101 (e.g. JAX-RPC) compliant web service for deployment in WebSphere 5.02. That is the path of least-resistance and is also the path with the longest-term chance of success.
    Kyle
    [ February 18, 2004: Message edited by: Kyle Brown ]
    Howard Kushner
    author
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Sep 19, 2003
    Posts: 361
    I suppose it's my turn to apologize as well.
    I must admit to being just a bit passionate about Web services, and still cling to the hope of starting work on a certification study guide covering the IBM Test 288 as soon as life settles down a bit.
    In closing, I would add that I deeply admire and respect Kyle Brown, and can attest to the fact that he knows WebSphere better than most anyone I have ever had the pleasure to know.
     
    I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
     
    subject: SOAP methods in Websphere