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iPlanet web server compatible w/. MQ Series

ralph roper
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 25, 2001
Posts: 25
My company has just completed an Architecture Review and have recommended using iPlanet web server, Weblogic and MQSeries. I have no experience with app servers and EJBs. Needing to get a basic web app fast I was hoping to hook jsp/servlets/javabeans on the web server into MQ Series and onto the backend DB.
It looks like iPlanet only provide MQ Series adapters with their app server and integration server products.
Do I need an adapter for the web server or can I use JMS to connect to MQ Series ?
Am I better off swearing black and blue to the users that the app server path is a better option and use the weblogic mqseries adapter and bring in a contractor to meet the deadline ?
Any recommendations appreciated.
Ralph
Naveen Kuppili
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 19, 2001
Posts: 24
I agree with you.. application server route is definitely the way to go. I don't see the point in having weblogic if it not being used as an application server. Unless it is a very low profile project with no long-term goals, it is better to invest a bit in creating a good, scalable application rather than have problems all along the way.
If you don't have in-house experience with weblogic, but have experience with iPlanet, and your company is against getting consultants, you might want to consider using entire iPlanet stack, and use iAS 6.0 instead of weblogic.
Vijay Shrivastava
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 15, 2001
Posts: 64
Could you please provide more detail on your application requirements. Since you are planning to use three products and they have different purposes your architect must have justified the need.
I am using Iplane and WebLogic and I have decent knowledge of MqSeries. There must be some strong reason to go for this architecture (either Legacy connectivity or guranteed distributed messaging). If you are not going to use the various features provided by the WLS as application server then there is no need to put it, instead you can use Iplanet to do the work for WebServer (host JSP. servlet etc).
Hope it helps,

------------------
Vijay shrivastava
Consultant - ObjectNetTechnologies ,Atlanta USA.
SCJP2, SCJEA (Part I)


Vijay shrivastava
raj sekhar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 16, 2001
Posts: 117
Guys
This may be a lil deviation but still with the same topic. I too am in a similar state as Ralph.
Vijay, since you have decent knowledge of MQ, I just need your suggestion for a better model for the problem I have.
We need to get data(realtime) from the legacy(mainframe) DB and am pondering how to communicate to the legacy though there are numerous solutions like screen scraping,socket communication etc.. The mainframe group suggests the use of MQ which is readily available at their dispense. But we are not sure how exactly with the use of MQ we can get the REALTIME data using MQ and what needs on our side to acheive this.
Our application uses iWS4.0/iAS6.0 running on HP-Unix and we have servlets/JSP(working on EJB's too) as our front/middle layer. We are looking for a good performance, least-time lag solution that can be implemented ASAP(but of course for a long-time). I can provide you with any more info if reqd.
Any urls that contain more info is welcome too.
Ralph, thanks for bringing this up.
Thanks
Raj

ralph roper
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 25, 2001
Posts: 25
Vijay,
here is some more detail and an update to the scenario. We have multiple databases, operating systems etc that have built up over the years. The financial institution involved are making a push into the e-commmerce space and as a result the Architecture Review was commisioned. The review is wanting to standardise on a common platform for all their applications to hook into.
Status: After meeting with the the Business Units and IT people it was agreed that now would be a good time to lay the foundation for the future e-commerce apps. Rather then rushing this one app onto the web it will be looked at in the big picture.
Thanks everyone for their input. In the coming months I will have a lot of work to get up to speed on J2EE.
regards,
Ralph
Naveen Kuppili
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 19, 2001
Posts: 24
Originally posted by raj sekhar:
We need to get data(realtime) from the legacy(mainframe) DB and am pondering how to communicate to the legacy though there are numerous solutions like screen scraping,socket communication etc.. The mainframe group suggests the use of MQ which is readily available at their dispense. But we are not sure how exactly with the use of MQ we can get the REALTIME data using MQ and what needs on our side to acheive this.

In my opinion, for realtime applications it is preferrable to use something like J2EE connectors rather than MQ. MQ can be used for realtime situations by switching to synchronous messaging mode.. but this has a lot of overhead when compared to J2EE connectors and would slow down the application a lot.
raj sekhar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 16, 2001
Posts: 117
J2EE connectors looks like is still emerging. Am not sure of its implementation details and not many appServers provide support for them currently. Any links appreciated.
Any other solutions?
Thanks
Raj
Naveen Kuppili
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 19, 2001
Posts: 24
Originally posted by raj sekhar:
J2EE connectors looks like is still emerging. Am not sure of its implementation details and not many appServers provide support for them currently. Any links appreciated.
Any other solutions?
Thanks
Raj

True.. but right now almost all app servers provide some sort of proprietary API's analogous to J2EE connectors. For example iPlanet provides UIF to connect to enterprise systems. You can draft an architecture with a good design so that the portion that uses the connectors is properly abstracted out. Thus if the requirement arises in the future, you should be able to switch to J2EE connectors easily.
I think UIF is mature enough and I was told that it has been deployed in quite a few mission critical applications. You can get info about these on the iPlanet web site.. but I don't think they have much info about it (which is sooo typical of iPlanet.. ).
Other possibilities..
JMS (which I hate to recommend for any real time systems)
CORBA (quite a robust solution but requires significant effort both on the J2EE side and usually even on the enterprise systems side)
Socket communication (huge development effort and cannot guarantee the reliability/robustness of the app)
Integration servers (middleware products)
Products that abstract out the enterprise system as a web service (I think Microsoft has a product called BizTalk which does this).

What best suits you depends on your project requirements and your corporate's policies and vision. In short, only you should be able to judge what best fits you.
Regards,
Naveen
raj sekhar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 16, 2001
Posts: 117
Thanks Naveen for your response.
I was looking at IMS connect software(cos the legacy uses IMS and IMS connect is readily available) which basically is a TCP/IP listener which receives the socket connection requests and pass the data back from the IMS transaction server.
This falls on to the socket programming category that you said.I am interested in knowing any pitfalls using this approach and the precautions that are required to safeguard the stability of the app as much as possible.
Also, the other solutions that I have is couple of different ways to using screen scrapping technologies.
Can anybody compare screen scrapping to the sockets transfer? Any pointers to more info?
Thanks
Raj
Vasanth Sunkara
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 09, 2002
Posts: 1
Hi Rajsekher,
regarding the screenscraping technologies, depends whether you want a hardcoded approach or configurable approach. You normally go to the configurable approach when u feel that there would be frequent changes on the Mainframe end which would change your screen format.
www.datalex.com >> a company which provides screen scrapping tool which can be made configurable.
I have to agree with naveen's view that you simply cannot adopt for wls [ 5.1 or 6.1 or for that matter 7.0 ] unless you have a business process , or some message processing to be done before you throw your messages to the destination. however this may also depend on your company's direction that every business process should undergo the wls domain.
There could be one or more reason why MQ was suggested instead of Adaptors, basically adaptors are costly than middleware [ atleast for now ], secondly adaptors are still in the nacent stage.
and what ever finacial, banking or logistics legacy infrastructure you have ...IAS<-->wls<-->MQ<-->mainframe works quite fine with respect to performance.
 
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