This week's book giveaway is in the OCPJP forum.
We're giving away four copies of OCA/OCP Java SE 7 Programmer I & II Study Guide and have Kathy Sierra & Bert Bates on-line!
See this thread for details.
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Just for bert bates

himanshu kesarwani
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 84
hello....sir..,,
i really like the way you write the books.....
but in case of 'head first java'....humour is irritating....!!
to tell the difference between jvm and compiler...a chat show is portrayed....
in the chat show about 50% lines are added just 4 fun and of no use....however the other 50% was having the real good concepts.....!!!
sir,i am not telling anything bad to you....!!
i just wanted to let you no aboout this....
and SIR,PLEASE TELL ME WHAT SHOULD I DO TO LEARN JAVA FOR SCJP 5...
BECAUSE IN YOUR SCJP 5,BOOK IT IS TOLD THAT FIRST get the java concepts cleared then do this book....!!
i am very good in c++,c
but new to java.....help me out sir!!
[ September 03, 2008: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]

SCJP 5
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
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Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61451
    
  67

Two things:

1) Please take the time to choose the correct forum for your posts. For more information, please read this. This post has been moved to a more appropriate forum.

2) Please use real words when posting to the forums. Abbreviations such as "4" in place of "for" only serve to make your posts more difficult to read and less likely to generate useful responses. I have adjusted the title topic for you. Please read this for more information.

bear
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Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8875
    
    5
Hi Himanshu,

Thanks for writing! First off, if I understand you correctly, it sounds like you have the SCJP 5 book and the older version of HF Java. If you liked HF Java you could get the newer version of HF Java that discusses many of the more popular language additions that were added with Java 5. On the other hand, I understand that books are expensive, and if you already have the first edition of HF Java it probably doesn't make sense to get another copy, just for the SCJP 5 stuff. On yet another hand, if you already have the SCJP 5 book I think that between the two books you already have, and JavaRanch, you should be able to pick up the important features of Java 5.

As far as the humor goes, I have to say that you're stuck with it We believe humor (even our lame attempts at humor), is an effective way to help make learning books work better for the learner. So even if the jokes make you groan, they might also be helping your brain remember stuff more easily.

That's our story, and we're sticking to it

hth,

Bert


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fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
Bartender

Joined: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 11444
    
  16

I am by no means an author or an educator (well, not any more), nor do I have NEAR the experience that Kathy and Bert have.

However, I want to take exception to one minor point...
We believe humor (even our lame attempts at humor), is an effective way to help make learning books work better for the learner.

The one thing I remember best from all my education classes is that everyone does not learn the same way. Some people need to see things, some to do it, some need to hear it... there are many different learning styles. So, the humor might not work for ALL learners. Some, like himanshu kesarwani, may indeed find it distracting and thus loses the main point.

I'm not saying the books are BAD - quite the opposite. I, personally, love them all, and have bought 4-5 of them on different topics. Their style works GREAT for me. But if this style is not to someone's personal taste, I'd simply recommend they try a different book.


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Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8875
    
    5
We're always researching this topic, and so everything I say below represents what I believe at this moment, and I'm ALWAYS interested in new and better information!

While I believe that everyone has a unique learning style, I think that the differences are relatively minor. For a while the idea of customized learning to meet a learner's "Style" got a lot of attention, I think that, in the end, it was overblown. For instance to say that someone is a "kinesthetic learner" might be true to some degree, but in general that type of learner will still be primarily a "visual learner" who happens to have a slightly more than average leaning towards the kinesthetic. In other words, for the vast majority of the population, differences in learning styles are actually fairly small.

When we first created HF we thought it might appeal to a small subset of readers, and it's been far more universally accepted than we ever imagined. Over the last couple of years we reverse-engineered our own stuff. A lot of that work revolved around analysis of reader feedback. Of course it's always possible that we analyzed the data to meet our own preconceived notions , but we tried not to fall into that trap. Here's what I believe now:

- Your mind is usually battling your brain - your brain doesn't care about Java.
- To trick the brain into caring, you have to get emotions going.
- Humor, however lame, is one way to get emotions going - there are TONS of other ways.

So, I'm not all that tied to humor, but I AM tied to creating emotional charges. I'm really open to hearing other theories, but the question remains - why is HF Java a bestseller? We're not great writers, and we didn't cover anything unusual. What our readers tell us is that they actually learned. I honestly believe that making a distinction between the mind and the brain, and attempting to address the differences between those two is why HF books succeed.

I'd welcome your thoughts!

Bert
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30789
    
157

Originally posted by Bert Bates:
but I AM tied to creating emotional charges.

That's interesting. I'm currently reading "Clean Code." It's a very thought intensive book (for a non-academic book.) Every once in a while, I hit a cartoon/illustration and my mind perks up and gets more alert. I think that is like the emotional charge you are talking about.

Disclaimer: I'm on page 49. I don't know that this continues through the whole book.


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Akhilesh Trivedi
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Joined: Jun 22, 2005
Posts: 1527
I bought HF for servlets and JSP after being done with SCJP(non-HF). I had a notion that SCJP book suits me, so another book by same author should also suit. But case was different.

I prefer books to be plain-text with good theory so that i can have a pencil/pen by side, scribble over the pages, and get the stuff into the head. While it is good that it is already done for me in HF series, there is another side, my interaction with book is now limited to browsing pages alone. I can not read it at 2 a.m. in morning but yes, it fits in a group-study.


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Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8875
    
    5
Hi Akhilesh,

Thanks for your feedback, I've never heard of this problem before! I'd like to know more about why you feel you can't write in the HF book? We've been fortunate to see student copies of books and the ones that we've seen have writing all over them, which is what we always intended. That said, it's scary to me to think that for some reason you don't feel comfortable writing in your book!

Thanks,

Bert
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61451
    
  67

Indeed, having read, and even edited, a number of HF books, I find that readers are highly encouraged to scribble all over the pages!
Akhilesh Trivedi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 22, 2005
Posts: 1527
Originally posted by Bert Bates:
Hi Akhilesh,

Thanks for your feedback, I've never heard of this problem before! I'd like to know more about why you feel you can't write in the HF book? We've been fortunate to see student copies of books and the ones that we've seen have writing all over them, which is what we always intended. That said, it's scary to me to think that for some reason you don't feel comfortable writing in your book!

Thanks,

Bert


Originally posted by Bert Bates:
Hi Akhilesh,

Thanks for your feedback, I've never heard of this problem before! I'd like to know more about why you feel you can't write in the HF book? We've been fortunate to see student copies of books and the ones that we've seen have writing all over them, which is what we always intended. That said, it's scary to me to think that for some reason you don't feel comfortable writing in your book!

Thanks,

Bert


Hi Bert,
As a reader, i feel both the books have their own style and charming humor. While SCJP had its pointers in text, I could underline them, draw arrows and do the note-making myself. While I can do the same in HF book as well, and not that I am not comfortable doing it, but most of the pencil-work/note-making is already done. Else HF book has more pages to scribble than SCJP one.
Akhilesh Trivedi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 22, 2005
Posts: 1527
Started liking HF book for Design Patterns. Thanks to authors including Kathy & Bert.
Vasundhara Sahi
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 21, 2012
Posts: 17

Bert Bates wrote:We're always researching this topic, and so everything I say below represents what I believe at this moment, and I'm ALWAYS interested in new and better information!

While I believe that everyone has a unique learning style, I think that the differences are relatively minor. For a while the idea of customized learning to meet a learner's "Style" got a lot of attention, I think that, in the end, it was overblown. For instance to say that someone is a "kinesthetic learner" might be true to some degree, but in general that type of learner will still be primarily a "visual learner" who happens to have a slightly more than average leaning towards the kinesthetic. In other words, for the vast majority of the population, differences in learning styles are actually fairly small.

When we first created HF we thought it might appeal to a small subset of readers, and it's been far more universally accepted than we ever imagined. Over the last couple of years we reverse-engineered our own stuff. A lot of that work revolved around analysis of reader feedback. Of course it's always possible that we analyzed the data to meet our own preconceived notions , but we tried not to fall into that trap. Here's what I believe now:

- Your mind is usually battling your brain - your brain doesn't care about Java.
- To trick the brain into caring, you have to get emotions going.
- Humor, however lame, is one way to get emotions going - there are TONS of other ways.

So, I'm not all that tied to humor, but I AM tied to creating emotional charges. I'm really open to hearing other theories, but the question remains - why is HF Java a bestseller? We're not great writers, and we didn't cover anything unusual. What our readers tell us is that they actually learned. I honestly believe that making a distinction between the mind and the brain, and attempting to address the differences between those two is why HF books succeed.

I'd welcome your thoughts!

Bert


I know its an old thread.

Mr Bates HF humour rocks and hopefully it will continue that way.

No one is compelled to put up with the humour .

Its a choice reader makes.

Hope to have a Spring version soon.


Truth be told .....I am a Java noob....
 
 
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