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About the book

 
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We just recently switched from JBuilder to Eclipse at work and I was wondering if this book (Eclipse: Step by Step) would be useful for our developers. Most of the books on eclipse spend about 2/3 of the book explaining how to write plug-ins, which is not very useful for us. We need more of a how-to-use eclipse book.
Thanks!
 
Greenhorn
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We develop Web applications. It looks like this book might not cover web development at all. Has anyone looked at the book? Would it be helpful for people who develop web applications?
Thanks
Jay
 
Nate Johnson
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Originally posted by Jay Sissom:
We develop Web applications. It looks like this book might not cover web development at all. Has anyone looked at the book? Would it be helpful for people who develop web applications?


Web apps are very important to us too. Anyone know of a good plugin for web apps in eclipse, specifically struts apps... the out of the box support is not the greatest We are looking at MyEclipse right now.
 
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Eclipse: Step by Step is designed to help people who have never used Eclipse become familiar with the tool in a real working environment. It's not a reference manual or a plug-in development manual; it's an extremely user-friendly how-to on using Eclipse.
If you're already an accomplished Java programmer and comfortable with IDEs like VisualAge for Java, you probably don't need this book - unless you want to learn how to write a working application using SWT and JDBC! One of the unique features of Eclipse: Step by Step is the fact that the book is focused on a real, working application. By the end of the book, you will have a fully functional database application up and running.
It's definitely *not* a book on web application development. Since base Eclipse doesn't support any J2EE features, none of that is in this book. The publishers are considering other books on those topics, including one on IBM's WebSphere products, but that's a different topic for a different day.
Joe
 
Nate Johnson
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Thanks... we'd be interested in seeing an eclipse book that focused on j2ee developement... maybe when eclipse adds default support for j2ee
 
Joe Pluta
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Originally posted by Nate Johnson:
Web apps are very important to us too. Anyone know of a good plugin for web apps in eclipse, specifically struts apps... the out of the box support is not the greatest


For me, the best support for developing web applications is IBM's WebSphere product line. I use WDSC, the WebSphere Development Studio Client, but there are others, including WSAD and WSSD, which provide different levels of features.
With WDSC, I can edit servlets, beans, JSPs, HTML and CSS all in the same IDE, with context sensitive editors for each (the CSS editor is really nice, for example). I can compile and run the application in a test environment using any of several versions of WebSphere Application Server or Tomcat, all on my PC. I can set breakpoints in the beans, the servlet and even the JavaServer Page.
It's a great working environment, although it requires a very hefty PC (I recommend nothing less than 2GHz with 1GB of RAM).
Joe
 
Nate Johnson
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Originally posted by Joe Pluta:

For me, the best support for developing web applications is IBM's WebSphere product line. I use WDSC, the WebSphere Development Studio Client, but there are others, including WSAD and WSSD, which provide different levels of features.


we deploy into WS, but the tools are a bit pricey, which is why we are switching to eclipse...

Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
With WDSC, I can edit servlets, beans, JSPs, HTML and CSS all in the same IDE, with context sensitive editors for each (the CSS editor is really nice, for example). I can compile and run the application in a test environment using any of several versions of WebSphere Application Server or Tomcat, all on my PC. I can set breakpoints in the beans, the servlet and even the JavaServer Page.


yeah, jbuilder had a lot of those features... i think with a few plugins, eclipse can do a lot of that stuff... maybe not the remote debugging though...
 
Joe Pluta
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Originally posted by Nate Johnson:
we deploy into WS, but the tools are a bit pricey, which is why we are switching to eclipse...


WebSphere is Eclipse, with commercial plug-ins from IBM. In order to get Eclipse to match the functionality, you'll just have to replace those plug-ins with free plug-ins like Lomboz.

yeah, jbuilder had a lot of those features... i think with a few plugins, eclipse can do a lot of that stuff...


Like I said, the WebSphere tools are simply Eclipse with IBM's commercial plug-ins. There are plenty of free editors out there; editors are relatively easy to write. You won't find the testing environments, because that's really hard stuff (but stuff that IBM does very well). And of course, if you buy the product you get support. It's a matter of where you want to spend your money.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, if you buy an IBM iSeries, you can get all the latest and greatest WebSphere development tools at a significantly reduced price. If cost is a concern, you might want to look into it.
Joe
 
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I believe it is a matter of how much one is willing to spend, the company I work for are not in a position to purchase anything significant. I am using Eclipse with Lomboz for my webapps development and its been great so far.
 
Dastardly Dan the Author
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First of all, congratulations on your book, Eclipse Step-by-Step! It's great to see your book help fill out the range of the Eclipse audience.

Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
It's a great working environment, although it requires a very hefty PC (I recommend nothing less than 2GHz with 1GB of RAM).


Wow, you're spoiled.
I work on WSAD performance and our target entry-level machine is ~800 MHz and 512M RAM (please, no laughing ). I've found that 2GHz laptops are often I/O bound during deployment, launch, and initialization -- the areas that tend to draw the strongest customer ire. Of the scenarios that I've measured, the system load is generally in the 800-900M range. This isn't to say that I couldn't easily push it over that range, but I believe you'll find a rapidly diminishing return on CPU speed for laptops. The biggest "bang for the buck" is more memory.
Anyway, I hope you'll experience some of the fruits of our performance work in WSAD 5.1.
-- Dan
 
Joe Pluta
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Originally posted by Dan Kehn:
First of all, congratulations on your book, Eclipse Step-by-Step! It's great to see your book help fill out the range of the Eclipse audience.


Thanks, Dan! I think you've characterized the book very well - it fills out the range of Eclipse books. Like I said, a VisualAge for Java expert won't need Eclipse: Step by Step, but someone new to IDEs and in particular to the concept of a perspective-based IDE like Eclipse is going to get a lot of benefit out of it. This includes RPG programmers; one of the great unique features of Eclipse is the fact that it can be (and has been!) extended to support the legacy languages as well as the newer ones.

I work on WSAD performance and our target entry-level machine is ~800 MHz and 512M RAM (please, no laughing ). I've found that 2GHz laptops are often I/O bound during deployment, launch, and initialization -- the areas that tend to draw the strongest customer ire. Of the scenarios that I've measured, the system load is generally in the 800-900M range. This isn't to say that I couldn't easily push it over that range, but I believe you'll find a rapidly diminishing return on CPU speed for laptops. The biggest "bang for the buck" is more memory.


You're absolutely right. Laptops with 5400RPM disk drives simply get eaten up by the startup requirements. CPU speed is still nice to have for certain operations (such as pasting large pieces of code) and it's not that expesnive. And the speed and memory in a workstaton with a decent disk drive is a good investment. I think spending $1700 on a workstation (that's what mine cost, including a completely mirrored 80MB SATA drive) is a justifiable and even necessary expense in these days of hard job markets. When times are tough, it always pays to buy the best tools - which is of course another reason I choose WebSphere Studio. It's expensive, but worth the price.

Anyway, I hope you'll experience some of the fruits of our performance work in WSAD 5.1. -- Dan


I'll be looking forward to it. To be fair, my speed requirements are a little above the normal. You may not be aware of the fact that I come at this from the iSeries world. I participated the WDSCi beta (as well as the WebSphere Express beta), so when I use the IBM plug-ins I'm often using the VERY resource intensive iSeries extensions. Try pasting in a few hundred lines of RPG into the jLpex editor and you'll see what I mean.
But I am definitely anxiously awaiting the new version. One of my target audiences is green screen programmers who are being shoved into the new GUI pool, and so it's important that I can show them that everything's okay, and the water is fine. I'm already trying to get my order in ahead of time .
Joe
 
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