IntelliJ & Eclipse plugins

[Dylan Honorez]

Like many others here I'd like to compare IntelliJ to Eclipse, which I think are the two most popular IDE's available for Java. I've always been convinced with IntelliJ, it works fast and accurate, and has tons of features.

However, I think Eclipse has a winner feature, call it a killer-app if you like. Eclipse is a platform, not just an IDE, so there are others making their own IDE for the "Eclipse Platform". Two concrete cases I know of: Oracle BPEL and WebMethods Modeler are both available for the Eclipse Platform. Whereas Oracle is giving up on Eclipse and choosing their own JDeveloper platform, WebMethods is putting more and more effort into Eclipse. Oh yeah, and Eclipse free.

So what do you think? Is IntelliJ ever going to be a platform like Eclipse? Will you put effort in IntelliJ so it could support the Eclipse plugins like the ones from WebMethods or Oracle?

[Patrick Fust]

I would be really cool if IntelliJ would support Eclipse plugins.
I have developed a Eclipse plugin ( http://www.holmbech.com/eclipse/keytool ) but now we're using IntelliJ at my work, so my plugin can't be used :-(

I haven't yet taken the time to find out how plugins work in IntelliJ.

Best regards,
Patrick Fust
[ November 28, 2006: Message edited by: Patrick Fust ]

[Jeroen T Wenting]

People build their systems on Eclipse because it's free, reducing their own development cost without increasing the cost of their customers to purchase their products (thus potentially increasing their profits).
IntelliJ isn't free so will never see the widespread adoption as a platform outside organisations that use it anyway.

[Dmitry Jemerov]

Hello Dylan,

Indeed, Eclipse is a platform, which has upsides and downsides for Java developers working in Eclipse. Indeed, there are many other products that are built on the Eclipse platform. But this also means that Eclipse JDT is just one of many tools running on the platform, and the needs of the Java support are not always top priority for the platform developers. On the other hand, IntelliJ IDEA focuses on being a Java IDE, and we try to provide the absolutely best Java development experience with no compromises.

We do not have any plans to make IntelliJ IDEA a platform. This doesn't make business sense for us and won't help the users either - all the companies which have already invested in the Eclipse RCP won't suddenly switch simply because another platform became available.

Also, it is not feasible for us to support Eclipse plugins in IntelliJ IDEA. The architecture is simply too different - we would have to spend lots and lots of work reimplementing the Eclipse APIs over our own codebase.

[Dylan Honorez]

I see. Well it was a long shot anyway to see a real IntelliJ Platform, and maybe indeed it doesn't make sense for your business.

What bothers me is that my set of tools, instead of being an integrated environment in 1 tool, is growing and growing.

I would use IntelliJ for coding, Eclipse for Integration with business logic and finally NetBeans for making GUI's (which I think is something IntelliJ needs to review urgently). I guess there's no other solution when you want the strongest tools for each task.

[Tim Holloway]

If you think you can't do GUI's in IntelliJ, you probably haven't tried IntelliJ 6. While it lacks a a WYSWIG JSF editor, it does great Swing design.

Now I no longer have to use my antique copy of Visual Cafe to layout Swing apps!

[software visualization]

Originally posted by Dmitry Jemerov:
Hello Dylan,

Indeed, Eclipse is a platform, which has upsides and downsides for Java developers working in Eclipse. Indeed, there are many other products that are built on the Eclipse platform. But this also means that Eclipse JDT is just one of many tools running on the platform, and the needs of the Java support are not always top priority for the platform developers. On the other hand, IntelliJ IDEA focuses on being a Java IDE, and we try to provide the absolutely best Java development experience with no compromises.

We do not have any plans to make IntelliJ IDEA a platform. This doesn't make business sense for us and won't help the users either - all the companies which have already invested in the Eclipse RCP won't suddenly switch simply because another platform became available.

Also, it is not feasible for us to support Eclipse plugins in IntelliJ IDEA. The architecture is simply too different - we would have to spend lots and lots of work reimplementing the Eclipse APIs over our own codebase.

[software visualization]

I think Dmitry's response is right on; it's called picking one thing and doing it well. Who do you think is going to best service the creation-tools needs of Java developers, a company dedicated to doing that and only that or a company whose product is living off the money/time/attention froth of their other income streams? IntelliJ is the best IDE out there and the price is literally 1/10th of what the giants of the past charged for their less-than-stellar products. There are lots of plug-in platforms out there for everything from geenral programs (pico-container, nano-container) to image processing (ImageJ). Don't believe for a second that everything is going to be hosted on a generic platform like Eclipse in the future. Specialized plug-in architectures are more efficient just like specialized drag cars are more efficient; they are not meant for everything- they're meant for ONE thing.

[Jeanne Boyarsky]

"_software visualization",

We're pleased to have you here with us here at JavaRanch, but there are a few rules that need to be followed, and one is that proper names are required. Please take a look at the JavaRanch Naming Policy and adjust your display name to match it.

In particular, your display name must be a first and a last name separated by a space character, and must not be obviously fictitious.

Also note that accounts with invalid names are ineligible to win the software.

Thanks,
Jeanne
Forum Bartender

[Ilja Preuss]

Originally posted by Dylan Honorez:

I would use IntelliJ for coding, Eclipse for Integration with business logic and finally NetBeans for making GUI's (which I think is something IntelliJ needs to review urgently).

Doesn't help you regarding IDEA, but have you seen Matisse4MyEclipse?

[Jeroen T Wenting]

Originally posted by Tim Holloway:
If you think you can't do GUI's in IntelliJ, you probably haven't tried IntelliJ 6. While it lacks a a WYSWIG JSF editor, it does great Swing design.

Now I no longer have to use my antique copy of Visual Cafe to layout Swing apps!

You can "do GUI's" in edlin if you have to, you don't need a fancy "visual" tool for it.
In fact given the quality of the code most such tools produce you're better off not using them except maybe for rapid prototyping.

[Dmitry Jemerov]

Hello Jeroen,

Why do you care about the quality of the code produced by GUI designer tools? You don't have to ever touch this code. You can just write your code around the generated code.

One of the modes of operation for IntelliJ IDEA's GUI designer is bytecode generation. In this mode, there is no generated source code at all - the form layout code is inserted directly to .class files after compilation.

And of course, the productivity of creating, and especially maintaining, UIs in any good UI design tool far exceeds that of working with UI forms in a text editor.