JSF Is it really requirerd

[Chinna Karuppan]

A login page to be a JSF....why is required.This would consume more processing time. Idon't understand why every page has to be a jsf...I was happy with JSP & HTML for forms submission...The page was designed by HTML developer and I have to fill in the data part...
now I have to design the page....frustrating..those style classes and div.I amn't good...
over and above the exceptions why i don't know where it is coming from..it is getting really complex (lot of layers)..
I have previously worked on the JSP and servlet.I no more worked in java after that .now i want to put a site.and all these new stuff doesn't make sense...need help from the gurus out here...
AM Missing something..

[Dave Boyd]

You dont need JSF

but it helps

for a simple login page i would not even consider JSF unless you already know how to use it

for a massive complex web app JSF will make your life alot easier than straight JSP

If its small dont worrie about JSF

if your web app is big or has the chance of growing use JSF will make your life easier in the long run

[Henry Lowell]

Originally posted by Dave Boyd:
if your web app is big or has the chance of growing use JSF will make your life easier in the long run

That's debatable. There are too many factors involved for that to be a valid statement. Knowledge of JSF, JSF implementation choice, project needs, just to name a few.

JSF is being shoved down our throats by Sun as the new standard. There are better web frameworks than JSF. And even those better frameworks are often times too much.

[Bear Bibeault]

Originally posted by Dave Boyd:
if your web app is big or has the chance of growing use JSF will make your life easier in the long run

Such simplistic statements are almost always wrong. Personally, I think good old JSP 2.0 and servlets structured using a good Model 2 architecture is the easiest and most scalable solution -- short or long term.

[vinaya kumar thimmappa]

There would be some disadvantage with JSP/Servlet kind of architecture which is the reason why other frameworks came right ?

I am not sure what were those disadvantages.
Can some one else throw some light on this

[Christophe Verré]

JSF Goals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaServer_Faces#JSF_goals

[Henry Lowell]

Originally posted by vinaya kumar thimmappa:
There would be some disadvantage with JSP/Servlet kind of architecture which is the reason why other frameworks came right ?

I am not sure what were those disadvantages.
Can some one else throw some light on this

Yea, it's called lazy developers. Seriously, I think it's Sun trying to compete with ASP.NET which JSF is quite similar to. And they thought that tool support might bring in some cash. Similar thing happened with JDO.

Unfortunately, and debatably, tool support is still lacking. Even after several years since JSF first reared its head. And interestingly, the best JSF implementation is open source (Apache's MyFaces). Also note that I believe Java developers in general don't want tools to generate code for them. At least the java developers I know don't.

[Bear Bibeault]

Originally posted by vinaya kumar thimmappa:
There would be some disadvantage with JSP/Servlet kind of architecture which is the reason why other frameworks came right ?

Engineers love to complicate things and come up with fancy frameworks that eliminate a few lines of Java by adding 17 lines of configuration. Some call it progress. I call it obfuscation.

All my web apps are written using plain JSP 2.0 and servlets, employing a tiny-footprint front controller as their "framework" and paying close attention to the separation of MVC components.

Works for me. Your mileage may vary.

[ankur rathi]

Originally posted by Bear Bibeault:


Engineers love to complicate things and come up with fancy frameworks that eliminate a few lines of Java by adding 17 lines of configuration. Some call it progress. I call it obfuscation.

If 'they' would have thought like this before then struts wouldn't have evolved...

[Chinna Karuppan]

I guess my whole point was should developer be designing the page.Earlier I used to get the JSP(HTML) done in dreamweaver and I had slots where I can fill in.Now I guess I have to build the html from one of the tags..Can somebody tell me if I am missing something.....

[Richard Green]

Old way of doing things:

<%
Set<String> err = new HashSet<String>();
String surname = (String)request.getParameter("surname");
if ("".equals(surname) || surname == null) {
err.add("Surname is required");
}
int age = 0;
try {
age = Integer.parseInt((String)request.getParameter("age"));
} catch(parseException p){
//blah
}
if (age <0 && age > 100) {
err.add("Please enter a valid age");
}
%>
<table>
<%
for (String e : err) {
        out.println("<tr><td>"+e+"</td></tr>");
}        
%>
</table>
<form>
<input name="surname" type="text"/>
<input name="age" type="text"/>
</form>
....
...

Way better - using JSF

<h:form styleClass="form" id="demoForm">
<h:messages styleClass="linklist" />
<h:inputText id="surname" required="true" styleClass="inputText" maxlength="32" />
<h:inputText id="age" required="true" styleClass="inputText" maxlength="3">
<f:validateLongRange maximum="100" minimum="0"/>
</h:inputText>
</h:form>

The benefits are pretty obvious, isnt it?

[Henry Lowell]

Originally posted by Mike Corleone:
Old way of doing things:

<%
Set<String> err = new HashSet<String>();
String surname = (String)request.getParameter("surname");
if ("".equals(surname) || surname == null) {
err.add("Surname is required");
}
int age = 0;
try {
age = Integer.parseInt((String)request.getParameter("age"));
} catch(parseException p){
//blah
}
if (age <0 && age > 100) {
err.add("Please enter a valid age");
}
%>
<table>
<%
for (String e : err) {
        out.println("<tr><td>"+e+"</td></tr>");
}        
%>
</table>
<form>
<input name="surname" type="text"/>
<input name="age" type="text"/>
</form>
....
...

...
The benefits are pretty obvious, isnt it?

That is a very old way. And as far as your new and imprvoved JSF way, you forgot to include the code in the managed bean as well as the configuration file for said managed bean and any navigation. So your comparison isn't even valid even if your old way was anywhere close to the JEE 1.4 way of doing things, ie; no scriplets.