EJB3 and Spring/Hibernate

[Raj Ohadi]

I have heard lot of people said "EJB3 is a stupid cousin of Spring and Hibernate". Is that really true ? Can you tell me, for the following EJB stuff, what's there counterpart in Spring/Hibernate ?

1. Session bean (stateful and stateless) -- what do you have in spring/hibernate can do the same thing ?

2. entity bean -- this one is hibernate, I know

3. transaction support --- does spring/hibernate do it better ?

4. distributed component -- does srping/hibernate do it better ?

5. application server --- does spring/hibernate ever need an application server ? Guess not necessary, then how can you gurantee a large enterprise system built on spring/hibernate without a solid application server ??

Just doubt..

[Mark Spritzler]

I have heard lot of people said "EJB3 is a stupid cousin of Spring and Hibernate".

Who says that? I say the biggest thing that makes it wrong si to ask those folks how they like writing all that XML, and Spring using XML to make it XML hell.

I will say that Spring was needed because it was better than EJB 2.x and that Spring being POJO based had a strong influence on EJB 3.0. But everyone has their opinion, and some people love being negative.

Mark

[Pj Murray]

EJB 3 is an industry specification - and not a great one since there was a lot of politics involved in its development.

Spring and Hibernate are two separate products that have got very solid support from developers.

So you're comparing apples with pears - specification with products.

[Mark Spritzler]

and not a great one since there was a lot of politics involved in its development.

Just noting that that is your opinion on the subject, and have no actual knowledge or proof that there was any politics involved at all in its development. That is a fallacy. Not saying that there might have been politics or not, it is just that you weren't there. Not trying to be mean or jump at you, just wanted to point this out.

Mark

[Pj Murray]

Originally posted by Mark Spritzler:


Just noting that that is your opinion on the subject, and have no actual knowledge or proof that there was any politics involved at all in its development. That is a fallacy. Not saying that there might have been politics or not, it is just that you weren't there. Not trying to be mean or jump at you, just wanted to point this out.

Mark

How is this for proof that there was politics involved?


Politically Charged EJB Decision Hands a Victory to JBoss

http://www.devx.com/opinion/Article/21244



EJB 3.0 steered by politics?
http://www.javalobby.org/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=91799516&threadID=12809&forumID=61


The EJB 3.0 Hibernate Fallacy

http://www.jroller.com/page/mkeith?entry=the_ejb_3_0_hibernate

[Tim Holloway]

I wuz there. Definitely politics. The Hibernate and JDO crowds were at it tooth and nail for a while, but I think the end result came out OK.

It was primarily a religious matter. JDO is based on abstract data retrieval of generic objects. Hibernate is based on SQL data retrieval of database-specific objects. EJB had grown up sort of in the middle and everyone was struggling for its soul.

[Mark Spritzler]

Originally posted by PJ Murray:



How is this for proof that there was politics involved?


Politically Charged EJB Decision Hands a Victory to JBoss

http://www.devx.com/opinion/Article/21244



EJB 3.0 steered by politics?
http://www.javalobby.org/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=91799516&threadID=12809&forumID=61


The EJB 3.0 Hibernate Fallacy

http://www.jroller.com/page/mkeith?entry=the_ejb_3_0_hibernate

OK, so your links proved my point. First look at the first link, "Opinion" is right in the middle of the URL, and the second link you provide is a comment/opinion about the first links opinion, and the last link to Michael Keith even states that EJB3 is not Hibernate and it used all ORM technologies out there to help come out with the spec, they didn't shut out any technology becauase of politics.

Mark

[Pj Murray]

Originally posted by Mark Spritzler:




OK, so your links proved my point. First look at the first link, "Opinion" is right in the middle of the URL, and the second link you provide is a comment/opinion about the first links opinion, and the last link to Michael Keith even states that EJB3 is not Hibernate and it used all ORM technologies out there to help come out with the spec, they didn't shut out any technology becauase of politics.

Mark

Sorry - I don't understand. I didn't say that EJB3 was Hibernate.

Are you saying that there was no politics involved in the development of the EJB 3 specification?

That's a very unusual claim to make given the amount of detailed discussion of the subject on various industry forums - even headline stories. I said it was political because I've met a couple of people (at JavaOne last year) involved in the specification that claimed that it was was the most highly political specification they were ever involved in. Also, a poster above says he has first hand knowledge.

Disclosure for the record : My company benefits directly from supporting and promoting Hibernate and recommends JBoss professional support for commercial deployments (http://www.codefutures.com/hibernate/).

[Mark Spritzler]

All I said was that you were posting your opinion. That is all. If you opinion was based on either others opinions, or others observations it was still your opinion. That was it. Nothing personal against what you said, and nothing stating that your opinion was wrong. And I can agree to disagree with your opinion. And that is my opinion too.

Thanks

Mark