SOA

[Pradeep bhatt]

Is Web services an implementation of SOA?
Are there any other examples for SOA? Jiny?

[Ko Ko Naing]

I think JINI is fading away, since web services came to play an important role in Enterprise Systems... Are they competitors or complementors?

I'm not quite sure about the job of JINI... Any clear brief explanation would be appreciate as well... Thanks...

[Jim Bracks]

Is Web services an implementation of SOA?

Web services are one set of technologies for implementing SOA.

Are there any other examples for SOA? Jiny?
Yes (jini)

Jini is a lightweight environment for dynamically discovering and using services on a network.
Jim.

[Lasse Koskela]

Jini Network Technology is one possible technology for building SOA. Also, Jini service proxies can use web services (SOAP) for talking to the actual service implementation somewhere in the Internet so you could also say that Jini and Web Services complement each other.

For learning about Jini, there's a set of articles over at Artima (start with "Objects, the Network, and Jini" and "The Jini Vision" from the bottom). It's also quite useful to browse through the success stories posted by Sun to get an idea of how Jini is being used in the industry.

[Pradeep bhatt]

What are the characteristics of SOA? Is interoperablity one of the characteristcs?

[Jim Bracks]

Some SOA characteristics.
Services are discoverable and dynamically bound.
Services are self-contained and modular.
Services are loosely coupled.
Services are location transparent.
Services stress interoperability etc.



Jim.

[Lasse Koskela]

Originally posted by Jim Bracks:
Some SOA characteristics.
...
Services stress interoperability etc.

Where did you get that? Yes, many SOA's might be "interoperable" by the use of SOAP and HTTP as the communication protocol for accessing the services but I don't think that's a requirement for an architecture being service-oriented.

[Dave Knipp]

Does anyone know where you can see what technologies are part of SOA?? That would answer alot of our questions SO there's JINI, Web Services, .....

Dave

[Chris Buse]

I saw a SOA blueprint effort underway - check this link

[Ayesha Bux]

Characteristics of Service-Oriented Architecture

[Sal DiStefano]

Please remember SOA is NOT about specific technologies. Just because you use web services does not mean your using a Service Oriented Architecture.

Instead of Client/Server or N-Tier layers of tightly bound functionality. Service Oriented means just that, based on services. Loosly coupled, Black Box functionality which can be used by others.

Sal

[Pradeep bhatt]

Just because you use web services does not mean your using a Service Oriented Architecture.

How do I make sure that web serices implementation is SOA compliant?

[Pradeep bhatt]

Services are discoverable and dynamically bound.

Does that mean SOA is distributed?

[Pradeep bhatt]

Check this one
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/newto/

[Pradeep bhatt]

Lasse,

From the above link , I read this

The interface is defined in a neutral manner that should be independent of the hardware platform, the operating system, and the programming language the service is implemented in. This allows services, built on a variety of such systems, to interact with each other in a uniform and universal manner.

Doesn't that make interoperability a characteristics of SOA? :roll:

[Tha'er Zayed]

SOA is a concept..it's not a technology or set of specs.. WS is one way of implemnting a SO Architecture.. JINI is another way..they are not related, although you can wrap a jini in a WS, but that doesnt say that they are competotrs or complementors.. again SOA is a concept where you 'provide' a 'service' that's (amonth other things):

location-independent,
discoverable,
self-sufficient (black box that is)
sure it could be interoperable..

nowadays, people use WS and SOA to refer to the same thing although they are not.. WS is one way of doing a SOA.

[Tha'er Zayed]

In my opinion SOA is an over-hyped thing..so is Web Services..

They are that in the sense that they are not 'rocket science' or something that's entirely new.. these concepts have been around as far as RPC, however the 'plumbing work' around them (to make them location-independent, loosely coupled, discoverable, interoperable, etc.) is what's new.. now this is from a technological point of view. From a business point view, they are a perfect natural evolution (and revolution in terms of the way they changed how businesses inter-operate) to business needs.. first was the Internet that connected people and businesses, now after that people (businesses) started to look for ways to automate their work (B2B integration that is).. the best way to automate their integration is by taking advantage of the internet infrastructure..

[gautham kasinath]

Well, I agree with you mate!
The basis/backbone of Web Services is nothing but good old RPC, so one may call it an Old wine in a new Bottle. But the only difference is that we now have a GPS to find that bottle in the cellar (read as Discovery/UDDI)

There sure is a lot of stuff about interop between webservices, but then due to the lack of proper standards (IMHO), the interop is failing. For example, if one writes a Web service is .NET, with some complex datatype for request and response, then there is no guarentee that it WILL work for in tandem (IOP) with a client written for AXIS.

This is one issue that I have heard my team members face most times and Apache AXIS Users guide also recomends sticking to the BASIC datatypes defined in that doc than complex data types.

In all the heat for Web Services, there was a talk on JINI, but I sure would like to know what ever happened to CORBA??

Cheers
- Lupo

[Pradeep bhatt]

Thomas,
What are comments on using Web Services for grid based applications? For example Globus Toolkit 3.2 is based on OGSA.
Thanks,
Pradeep

[Lasse Koskela]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
From the above link , I read this
...
Doesn't that make interoperability a characteristics of SOA? :roll:

According to IBM's definition, apparently yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Any way you look at it, SOA tries to solve many of the problems we currently have in writing distributed interroperable applications. I've heard people call it Hype, marketing, etc. Each vendor trying to sell it's products will put it's own spin on it to benefit their cause. In the end people who are writing applications in this distributed space can and will beneift from the concepts of SOA.

Forget the platform and language wars, open your mind to some basic ideas of distributed application design and enjoy.

[Kostya Razumovsky]

Originally posted by Tha'er Zayed:
SOA is a concept..it's not a technology or set of specs.. WS is one way of implemnting a SO Architecture.. JINI is another way..

Great explanation!

[gautham kasinath]

Originally posted by Sal DiStefano:
Forget the platform and language wars, open your mind to some basic ideas of distributed application design and enjoy.

Well, try googling for Problems with Interop:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=Web%2Bservices&as_q=interop%2Bproblem

How I wish the world was as Ideal as we want it to be. Just when you think there is a concept that is truely independent of programming languages and enviroments, the problem rears its ugly head..

Anyway, aint there no one that can compare CORBA and Web Services??

Cheers
Lupo

[Pradeep bhatt]

CORBA VS WS
http://www2002.org/CDROM/alternate/395/

[Kostya Razumovsky]

Anyway, aint there no one that can compare CORBA and Web Services??

Why web services "better" than CORBA:

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-arc3/

[gautham kasinath]

Well, Thanks for that link mate!
Am reading through that.

WSSE Spec, provides a facility to pass around the username and password, by having the wsse:Security/UsernameToken/Username and ..../Password.

Well, in most cases, one wouldnt want to send plain text password to a web service for authentication, since any thing like axis-tcpmon, can intercept messages over wire and print the same. Hence compromising in security.

XML Encryption helps in encrypting the SOAP body or a certain x-paths in the body; but is there a way to encrypt the header??
I wonder, I have googled for the same invain.

Well, then isnt it a good idea to have a mechanism to encrypt the soap header, or a certain X-PAth in the same??

what say??

Cheers
Lupo

[J. Acc.]

This is a great discussion. Instead of addressing individual questions, what I'd like to do is publish a definition of SOA on one of my sites. I will try to get this up by tomorrow, and I'll post a message here when it's available.

[Bruno Collet]

I totally agree with Tha'er Zayed. SOA is a high-level design pattern that can be implemented in any technology, even COBOL if you want.
Also, no "SOA-oriented" technology, such as Web Services, ensures that you are indeed building an SOA application.
The best way to define SOA is probably by setting a number of conditions that an SOA system must meet.
And that will certainly make many current SOA application no so much SAO after all because most of them do not implement things such as publish and discovery (because it is almost always useless in a B2B situation, when client and server know each other).

[Gadzirai Moyo]

What are projections of this technolody,in the coming 5 years?

[Sal DiStefano]

Based on all they hype surrounding the term I would say it is going to be huge.

I have started to work on transitioning from our current N-Tier architectures to SOA and I have to tell you the discoveries are eye opening. When we begin to look at the possibilities which open up with services, not just with partners but for internal processes, I think Service Oriented systems will be around for a long time.

As we begin to see these possibilities, new tools and technologies will allow up to build systems which we have not even thought about yet. One thing I have noticed is with services much of the "Client" specific concerns go away. You can accommodate a Swing Client, Web Client, Windows or Flash Client all from the same Services. So now we look in going back to Clients Rich in functionality instead of Web Clients, etc.

Anything you hear will just be speculation but I suggest it is going to be a great ride.

Sal

[Pradeep bhatt]

Does SOA specify QoS for the implementing technologies.

[Lasse Koskela]

Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Does SOA specify QoS for the implementing technologies.

No. There is no "SOA specification" which would state such things.