Pet Peeve: J2ME != MIDP

[Mark Herschberg]

For all those looking to post in this forum, please keep the following in mind....
J2ME != MIDP
J2ME covers a whole range of profiles and configurations and devices. MIDP is on the low end. It was also on of the firts to come out. On the other side is PersonalJava (becoming Personal Profile), which is very close the JDK 1.1.8. It also includes TV profiles and automobile profiles and just about any other non-traditional computing device.
When you ask, can J2ME do <foo>, the answer is almost always yes. A more interesting question is whether or not a particular profile can do something.
For some basic background see
http://java.sun.com/j2me/
http://java.sun.com/products/cdc/
http://java.sun.com/products/cldc/
http://java.sun.com/products/foundation/
http://java.sun.com/products/midp/
http://java.sun.com/products/personaljava/
http://java.sun.com/products/javatv/
http://java.sun.com/products/j2mewtoolkit/

FAQs with more information on this, can be found at
http://java.sun.com/j2me/faq.html

A diagram showing these distinctions can be found on page two of http://java.sun.com/j2me/j2me-ds-0201.pdf

--Mark
[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: Mark Herschberg ]

[Angela Margot]

I'm rather new to even looking at J2ME.... you are saying that MIDP is sort of a subset of J2ME, correct? That is how I have interpreted it...

[Mark Herschberg]

That is absolutely, 100% correct!
--Mark

[M.K.A. Monster]

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:

J2ME != MIDP

You are right but I'm sure most of all the J2ME developers, develop their application for MIDP, and not for PersonalJAVA or JavaCard. This all because Java is getting used more and more in Cell phones, and off course PDA's.
Personal Java is mostly being used in Consumer Electronics, if I'm right. And most of all Consumer Electronics don't have the Personal Java environment installed.
And Java Card technology is only used in Smart Card, a credit card sized plastic card. I'm not sure but I'm think this is not commonly used.
Yours,
Mark Monster

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by M.K.A. Monster:

You are right but I'm sure most of all the J2ME developers, develop their application for MIDP, and not for PersonalJAVA or JavaCard. This all because Java is getting used more and more in Cell phones, and off course PDA's.
Personal Java is mostly being used in Consumer Electronics, if I'm right. And most of all Consumer Electronics don't have the Personal Java environment installed.
And Java Card technology is only used in Smart Card, a credit card sized plastic card. I'm not sure but I'm think this is not commonly used.

I haven't done a formal survey, I suspect neither of us have, but here's what I know.
JavaCard technology is become quite commonplace...just not in the consumer market.
Java is being used in PDAs and cell phones, however.... Palm is on the low end of PDAs. More modern PDAs like iPaqs and Jornadas run PersonalJava or even an SE flavor of Java! I've seen Japanese cell phones running PersonalJava. It's only in the US where our cell phones are barely able to handle J2ME. On the world-wide market, I suspect non-MIDP and non-PDAP J2ME use is higher then you suspect.
My thoughts are that by the time J2ME really talks off, MIDP will be relagated to simple pagers and phone, and most work will be done in higher level flavors of J2ME.
--Mark

[Doug Wang]

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:

J2ME != MIDP

You are absolutely, 100% correct! But MIDP is the only mature profile at present. Most J2ME book will cover MIDP application development.

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Doug Wang:

You are absolutely, 100% correct! But MIDP is the only mature profile at present. Most J2ME book will cover MIDP application development.

Very true, but how pissed would you be if you bought a Java book which only included AWT and not Swing? MIDP isn't the only mature profile, but it is the one with the widest device appeal. However, books written about it should be called MIDP books, not J2ME books. Calling it a J2ME book is misleading.
--Mark

[Doug Wang]

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:

... books written about it should be called MIDP books, not J2ME books. Calling it a J2ME book is misleading.

Correct! But I cant see any mature profiles other than MIDP. Right? Maybe SUN should move more quickly to wireless devices development. And I can name a long list of J2ME books focus mostly on MIDP.
[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Doug Wang ]

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Doug Wang:

Correct! But I cant see any mature profiles other than MIDP.... And I can name a long list of J2ME books focus mostly on MIDP.

There are some others, but even if that was the only one, it's still not a valid justification for such a title in my mind. Not when it's clear others are on the way (look at all the other JSRs currently under development).

Originally posted by Doug Wang:

Maybe SUN should move more quickly to wireless devices development.

Sun should move to wireless devices when it thinks it is optimal for the business. Sun should not move Java to wireless devices because Sun is not responsbile for Java development.
You and I should propose and join (or have our comapnies join) appropriate JSRs, as we see the need for it. We must remember that software is first and foremost a business, and not a technological playground. Just because we all think it's cool doesn't mean it's ripe for extensive development work.
--Mark