This weeks book give away: Please welcome James White and David Hemphill!!

[Cindy Glass]

Our book promotion this week is for "Java 2 Micro Edition" and amazingly enough is in the Java 2 Micro Edition forum .
Please thank the folks at Manning Publications Co. for setting this up and welcome authors David Hemphill and James White who will be with us this week to answer many of your questions about J2ME.
Thanks for being here guys !!!
[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: Cindy Glass ]

[a sanjuan]

hmmm...you should probably post a link to the book site or amazon.com.
i've seen that book at Borders, was pretty impressed by the coverage, but unfortunately, I already had 3 j2me books (all of which costs more than $40). i'm waiting for MIDP NG and the other Profiles to come out before buying another book, but for the lots of newcomers just wading in, i'd recommend checking the book out.

[Cindy Glass]

Good idea!! .
You can look at the book here.

[sing]

David Hemphill and James White,
Welcome to the Ranch.
I have two questions:
1)How is this book different from the books currently available in the market?
2)Can someone show me the table of contents? I can't find it from Amazon.com.
Thank You.
[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: Steffy Sing ]

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Steffy Sing:
David Hemphill and James White,
2)Can someone show me the table of contents? I can't find it from Amazon.com.
[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: Steffy Sing ]

You can find more info at
Java 2 Micro Edition
[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: Karl Schreiber ]

[David Hemphill]

Originally posted by Steffy Sing:
David Hemphill and James White,
Welcome to the Ranch.
I have two questions:
1)How is this book different from the books currently available in the market?
2)Can someone show me the table of contents? I can't find it from Amazon.com.
Thank You.
[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: Steffy Sing ]

Steffy,
This is a good question with so many J2ME books on the market these days. Jim and I wanted to write a book that covers more than MIDP and the APIs. In our book we provide a MIDP tutorial, but we also have an equal number of chapters dedicated to writing CLDC apps on the Palm. These chapters use the Jbed JVM from esmertec (http://www.esmertec.com) as PDAP is not available yet. Finally, what we believe to be a market differentiator for the book is we've dedicated about 1/3 of the chapters to architecture and design of mobile and wireless applications. In these chapters we discuss some of the key problems people face when developing wireless apps such as bandwidth and service availability/reliability. Chapter 11 provides several models for putting together mobile applications, Chapter 12 covers how to get MIDP applications working with servlets and JSPs using XML and Chapter 13 provides an in-depth look at J2ME networking. We have also provided a rather detailed chapter (ch 14) to discuss the technical details of the KVM.
The TOC can be found on the manning.com site:
http://www.manning.com/getpage.html?project=white&filename=contents.html

[a sanjuan]

i noticed the offer for an eBook. I think that is a GREAT idea and will definitely download a copy. like i said, i was perusing the book over at Borders, and was impressed with the coverage beyond the usual basic MIDlet stuff.
here's general questions for you:
why should a java developer invest the time and money in learning j2me? do you think there is a long term value in doing so beyond the usual hype? do you think demand for j2me developers could rival that for j2ee developers?

[Jim White]

Sanjuan,
Thanks for your kind words.
As to your question on the future of J2ME, it's a good question to which I wish I had a magical crystal ball. However, in my opinion I think J2ME does offer the software development community some opportunity to once again write applications that move between some diverse platforms. Let's also not forget that Java is now the #1 programming language in the world. That means an organization can make use of seasoned Java professionals (such as all of you) to help write these apps and, in some cases, take advantage of code already written in Java that can be ported to the device.
There are certainly alternatives for small device applications and I think the J2ME community would like to see the specifications move faster and come out stronger. HOwever, from what we see for the future of J2ME (new specs and future APIs) I think the future still looks bright.
I don't know if the needs will surpass that of J2EE, but I would like to think it can help produce more work for all of us by allowing organizations to extend the enterprise to all sorts of other clients
jim white

Originally posted by a sanjuan:
i noticed the offer for an eBook. I think that is a GREAT idea and will definitely download a copy. like i said, i was perusing the book over at Borders, and was impressed with the coverage beyond the usual basic MIDlet stuff.
here's general questions for you:
why should a java developer invest the time and money in learning j2me? do you think there is a long term value in doing so beyond the usual hype? do you think demand for j2me developers could rival that for j2ee developers?

[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: Jim White ]

[Matt DeLacey]

Dear Sirs:
I am particularly interested in what examples are in the book. I am interested in developing some apps for my Palm, and I have done some simple ones, but am desperately searching for examples of how to do more complex things (like networking, using the IR port etc). So could you give me some idea of what specific examples you provide in the book, and how many? And in your examples, do you explicitly show how to code them?

With Respect,
Matt DeLacey

[Jim White]

Matt,
the book contains many examples with the complete source code for each. For most of the book, we use a tutorial application (stock quotes) covered over several chapters to demonstrate how to:
build the UI
handle events
store data on the device
access the network (specifically the Internet)
We cover each of these aspects for MIDP and then again using CLDC and KJava (using Jbed's implementation) for Palm PDAs.
In the later sections of the book, we address more details in networking, use of XML, etc.
Sorry, we don't cover the IR port in any detail.
All of the source code from the book is available at www.manning.com/white and following the source code links.
Best of luck
jim white

Originally posted by Matt DeLacey:
Dear Sirs:
I am particularly interested in what examples are in the book. I am interested in developing some apps for my Palm, and I have done some simple ones, but am desperately searching for examples of how to do more complex things (like networking, using the IR port etc). So could you give me some idea of what specific examples you provide in the book, and how many? And in your examples, do you explicitly show how to code them?

With Respect,
Matt DeLacey

[Matthew Phillips]

Originally posted by Matt DeLacey:
Dear Sirs:
I am particularly interested in what examples are in the book. I am interested in developing some apps for my Palm, and I have done some simple ones, but am desperately searching for examples of how to do more complex things (like networking, using the IR port etc). So could you give me some idea of what specific examples you provide in the book, and how many? And in your examples, do you explicitly show how to code them?

With Respect,
Matt DeLacey

One of the things that I really liked about this book was the approach it took. By using a stock tracking application the code is explained in a way that is useful to the real world.

[Lance Titchkosky]

Hi James and David,
I'm currently working in a grad course that is focused on soft eng for wireless and handheld devices here at the U of Calgary. We're developing a casino type game for our application, I was wondering if you book goes over design/arch of games using j2me?
thanks!
lance

[Mahesh Sivaraman]

Hello sirs,
I am new to J2ME. How this book will help a beginner like me in developing industry standard J2ME applications?
Regards
Mahesh

[sing]

GREAT! This book looks will help me alot to understand in-depth the overall of J2ME especially in networking.
Thanks James and David
[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Steffy Sing ]

[Lynna Cekova]

Dear David and James,
I am a JSP programmer, and I don't know much about J2ME. Can you please tell me if your book is suitable for begginers, or do you need previous J2ME experience in order to benefit from it?
Thanks,
Cvety

[Jim White]

Lance,
Gaming is certainly one of the areas that attracts a great deal of J2ME attention. We don't deal directly with gaming issues or design/architecture.
I have noticed that many of the J2ME cell phone manufacturers are providing sample game applications (many with source). It may not be much, but it something to start.
jim

Originally posted by Lance Titchkosky:
Hi James and David,
I'm currently working in a grad course that is focused on soft eng for wireless and handheld devices here at the U of Calgary. We're developing a casino type game for our application, I was wondering if you book goes over design/arch of games using j2me?
thanks!
lance

[Jim White]

Mahesh,
I sure hope it can! In the book, we cover the current J2ME architecture (standards and direction) and then provide "Hello World" programs to get you started. After that, we address the major functions of building a real application: building the UI, handling events, storing data, and networking along with addressing some advance topics and real world design issues.
jim

Originally posted by mahesh sr:
Hello sirs,
I am new to J2ME. How this book will help a beginner like me in developing industry standard J2ME applications?
Regards
Mahesh

[Jim White]

Cvety,
Beginners welcome! We designed the book for someone that has a bit of Java knowledge but no J2ME experience. The ubiquitous "Hello World" programs help you get into the development environments and writing your first applications as quickly as possible. After you have a feel for the new or "smaller" environments, we introduce all the additional development in J2ME as well as advanced programming and design issues.

For those that have a little J2ME knowledge, we have written the chapters in such a way that each takes on a separate J2ME topic that can help fill in gaps in your knowledgebase.
We hope beginners to guru's can use the book effectively.
jim

Originally posted by Cvetelina Cekova:
Dear David and James,
I am a JSP programmer, and I don't know much about J2ME. Can you please tell me if your book is suitable for begginers, or do you need previous J2ME experience in order to benefit from it?
Thanks,
Cvety

[Amir Kamran]

Hello!
David Hemphill and James White
Is J2ME is only for mobile technology?

[Jim White]

Amir,
Good question and the answer is no. For example, the Connected Device Configuration and many of its associated profiles have been set up to address a range of devices that may not be mobile or wireless. In fact, Java got its start as a programming language for consumer electronics and J2ME is helping it get back into this arena. TV's, VCRs, automobile systems, kitchen appliances, can all make use of J2ME. While I have seen some demonstrations of J2ME on non-mobile/wireless systems, I haven't seen any products hit the open market yet, but I would suspect we will see them shortly.
jim

Originally posted by Amir Kamran:
Hello!
David Hemphill and James White
Is J2ME is only for mobile technology?

[a sanjuan]

i'm a bit less optimistic than you of seeing products coming out and succeeding in the non-phone, non-card arenas.
i've been hearing this hype for a LONG time now, first with JINI, now with j2me running on cars, refrigerators, etc. the question is not whether j2me can be ported to these, or that developers will be willing to write to these, but whether (1) a market exists for these types of devices; (2) whether such systems can be made as non-techy and ubiquitous as possible to catch on (most people can't even figure out how to set the clock on a VCR, and worse, many people are SCARED to try).
just my opinion, and i hope i'm wrong.

Originally posted by Jim White:
Amir,
Good question and the answer is no. For example, the Connected Device Configuration and many of its associated profiles have been set up to address a range of devices that may not be mobile or wireless. In fact, Java got its start as a programming language for consumer electronics and J2ME is helping it get back into this arena. TV's, VCRs, automobile systems, kitchen appliances, can all make use of J2ME. While I have seen some demonstrations of J2ME on non-mobile/wireless systems, I haven't seen any products hit the open market yet, but I would suspect we will see them shortly.
jim

[chris coleman]

Congratulations to the authors, and one question for them:
Do you agree with me strongly, that J2ME will flourish and rise in importance, because of the huge leaps in flash memory technology, best used in cellular and mobile devices, this last month by IBM?

[David Hemphill]

Originally posted by chris coleman:
Congratulations to the authors, and one question for them:
Do you agree with me strongly, that J2ME will flourish and rise in importance, because of the huge leaps in flash memory technology, best used in cellular and mobile devices, this last month by IBM?

I think the J2ME will grow in importance as mobile and wireless computing becomes more of a focal point for organizations to improve ROI. Flash memory technology obviously plays an important role in this area. One of the biggest impacts of flash memory improvements is to allow to smaller devices to do more, so people don't need to carry multiple devices to do their work. The desire to do more with a cell phone is also increasing; but at present, much of the corporate mobile/wireless solutions still require a PDA due to memory and processing power. But this is changing fast.
[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: David Hemphill ]

[a sanjuan]

i read recently a survey that showed many corporate users of WAP enabled phones had stopped using the wireless apps after an initial interest. the problem was more physical than the actual app themselves...it is just too darn hard to use the phones for anything beyond the simplest apps because of the small screen size (squinting at large amounts of text ain't easy) and the inordinate amount of work necessary just to write a short sentence. so such hybrids as the RIM BLackberry and the Treo (?) and Nokia Communicator might have a better time in the corprate environment.

Originally posted by David Hemphill:

I think the J2ME will grow in importance as mobile and wireless computing becomes more of a focal point for organizations to improve ROI. Flash memory technology obviously plays an important role in this area. One of the biggest impacts of flash memory improvements is to allow to smaller devices to do more, so people don't need to carry multiple devices to do their work. The desire to do more with a cell phone is also increasing; but at present, much of the corporate mobile/wireless solutions still require a PDA due to memory and processing power. But this is changing fast.
[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: David Hemphill ]

[Gagan Indus]

Originally posted by Lance Titchkosky:
Hi James and David,
I'm currently working in a grad course that is focused on soft eng for wireless and handheld devices here at the U of Calgary. We're developing a casino type game for our application, I was wondering if you book goes over design/arch of games using j2me?
thanks!
lance

Lance , the source-code at following URLs might help :
http://www.microjava.com/downloads/games?content_id=3394
http://www.microjava.com/downloads/games?content_id=3343
http://www.microjava.com/downloads/games?content_id=3286

[Jason Long]

I've been perusing the pages listed on the publisher's site, and came away impressed. Congratulations on your work!

[Ravenne Barns]

Gentlemen:
I have had an opportunity to use a little of the J2ME and must say I am very interested in what it has to offer. My question for you is when I was using the J2ME I found that on some of the emulator that I got an error, and I was wondering if there is any "an all purpose" emulator that I could use or if this will have a fix soon?
The emulators I am using are with the toolkit from sun.
I haven't seen your book yet but I will be looking for it now.
Thank You
Ravenne

[David Hemphill]

Originally posted by Jason Long:
I've been perusing the pages listed on the publisher's site, and came away impressed. Congratulations on your work!

Jason,
Thank you for the kind words. Maybe you could post this on Amazon too.
[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: David Hemphill ]
[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: David Hemphill ]

[David Hemphill]

Originally posted by Ravenne Barns:
Gentlemen:
I have had an opportunity to use a little of the J2ME and must say I am very interested in what it has to offer. My question for you is when I was using the J2ME I found that on some of the emulator that I got an error, and I was wondering if there is any "an all purpose" emulator that I could use or if this will have a fix soon?
The emulators I am using are with the toolkit from sun.
I haven't seen your book yet but I will be looking for it now.
Thank You
Ravenne

Ravenne,
What kind of errors are you seeing? There are a few gotchas with the MIDP reference implementation, but I haven't come across an error that seemed specific to the emulator in the wireless toolkit. You might try changing the emulator skin. I have found that this can make a difference. You might also try integrating the emulators from Motorola found at http://idenphones.motorola.com/iden/developer/developer_tools.jsp. I have had good luck with their tools. Good luck.
[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: David Hemphill ]

[David Hemphill]

Originally posted by a sanjuan:
i read recently a survey that showed many corporate users of WAP enabled phones had stopped using the wireless apps after an initial interest. the problem was more physical than the actual app themselves...it is just too darn hard to use the phones for anything beyond the simplest apps because of the small screen size (squinting at large amounts of text ain't easy) and the inordinate amount of work necessary just to write a short sentence. so such hybrids as the RIM BLackberry and the Treo (?) and Nokia Communicator might have a better time in the corprate environment.

Yes, I think you are right on many counts. Phones are great until you need to "see" lots of data on them or enter alphanumeric data. The lack of touch screens can be a problem as well if signature capture is critical. However, phones and PDAs are getting closer in form-factor and capabilities. My guess is that these types of problems will be overcome in a year or two with the next wave of phones/PDAs. The screens are getting larger, the memory footprint is expanding and alternative input methods, such as speech/command recognition and auto completion technologies are gaining ground. The other problem that enterprise use faces is that once you get a little functionality, people tend to want more and more. Corporations that are looking to make significant investments in hardware tend to be a little shy of such a brand new type of technology that "looks" limited to begin with. However, it is also important to understand (as you have indicated) that MIDP is finding its way onto a number of non-phone platforms, such as Palm OS, Pocket PC (Windows CE), communicators and of course RIM pagers where these limitations can be overcome. Also, J2ME Personal Basis and Personal Profiles will be available this year, providing more suitable API options for these devices.
-david
[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: David Hemphill ]

[a sanjuan]

The PDA profile seems to be coming out very soon as well:
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/index.cfm?go=news.view&news=2454
It's exciting times we live in, gents.
Maybe by the time your next book comes out, it'll have more detailed stuff on these new profiles
in the meantime, i am downloading your ebook and will be glad to post my comments in amazon.

Originally posted by David Hemphill:

Also, J2ME Personal Basis and Personal Profiles will be available this year, providing more suitable API options for these devices.
-david
[ June 27, 2002: Message edited by: David Hemphill ]

[ June 28, 2002: Message edited by: a sanjuan ]

[sing]

sanjuan,
I agree with your opinion and i hope to read your comments in amazon.

Originally posted by a sanjuan:
i am downloading your ebook and will be glad to post my comments in amazon.

Originally posted by a sanjuan:
i'm a bit less optimistic than you of seeing products coming out and succeeding in the non-phone, non-card arenas.
i've been hearing this hype for a LONG time now, first with JINI, now with j2me running on cars, refrigerators, etc. the question is not whether j2me can be ported to these, or that developers will be willing to write to these, but whether (1) a market exists for these types of devices; (2) whether such systems can be made as non-techy and ubiquitous as possible to catch on (most people can't even figure out how to set the clock on a VCR, and worse, many people are SCARED to try).
just my opinion, and i hope i'm wrong.

[a sanjuan]

well, i skimmed the book for now, and my first impressions earlier were right. quickly, and skipping the actual coding examples, i like the fact that they (1) took the time to go over the history and purpose of J2ME, since most books just plop you into the waters with no background on why the hell things are the way they are; (2) their explanation of configuration and profiles is one of the best i've read (and i have 3 st*pid books to prove it!) --- many newbies stumble over these concepts and when they open a book they find one paragraph explanations (in my case, i had to go looking around the web for clearer explanations); (3) they focused on environments beyond the usual cellphone --- i like this because i believe j2me does not just refer to wireless phones the way most people think of it.
quick nitpicks:
sorta anal about "mobile" vs "wireless";
also, didn't go too much into javacard, which i think should be merged into the core j2me;
more optimization tips might be helpful (may i missed it), since this is BIG concern with j2me.

[David Hemphill]

Originally posted by a sanjuan:
well, i skimmed the book for now, and my first impressions earlier were right. quickly, and skipping the actual coding examples, i like the fact that they (1) took the time to go over the history and purpose of J2ME, since most books just plop you into the waters with no background on why the hell things are the way they are; (2) their explanation of configuration and profiles is one of the best i've read (and i have 3 st*pid books to prove it!) --- many newbies stumble over these concepts and when they open a book they find one paragraph explanations (in my case, i had to go looking around the web for clearer explanations); (3) they focused on environments beyond the usual cellphone --- i like this because i believe j2me does not just refer to wireless phones the way most people think of it.
quick nitpicks:
sorta anal about "mobile" vs "wireless";
also, didn't go too much into javacard, which i think should be merged into the core j2me;
more optimization tips might be helpful (may i missed it), since this is BIG concern with j2me.

a sanjuan,
Thanks for the honest feedback.

[Aaron O'Brien]

Hey,
A General question...
With all of the free software out there for Palm devices, do you think that it hurts or helps developers(in general) as far as developing their own programs that might not be half bad...but also done by someone else for free.
Thanks,
Aaron O'Brien SCJP2

[Anders Breivik]

Hi there!
Do you cover security aspects of J2ME in your book any more extensively than other available literature?
Specifically I'm interested in info regarding strong cypto on MIDP-enabled limited devices, for example using the API from Legion of the Bouncy Castle (who apart from a hilarious name seems to be onto a good thing).
The are many books out there, but I'm having a real hard time separating the fluff from "the cat's miow".
TIA
Anders Breivik
[ July 04, 2002: Message edited by: Anders Breivik ]

[a sanjuan]

well, here's my two cents, for what it's worth.
i think there are good points and bad points to the proliferation of free apps.
Good:
(1) the abundance of good free apps is a boon to the end users of course;
(2) the abundance of apps is helpful to the platform as a whole because content is king, and end users will stick to platforms only if there are lots of stuff to do with it.
Bad:
(1) the proliferation of free, not as good apps, might "drown out" the good commercial apps.
(2) this might ultimately "drive out" many the commercial providers, who, in general, might be producing higher quality apps than the freewares, thus resulting in an overall decline in software quality. developers might slowly flee the platform for areas that are more profitable, thus leaving it mostly to the "hobbyists" and those tinkering with it on their free time.
the solution is not so obvious, unfortunately. for example, one possibility is segregating commercial apps from general app download sites (e.g. nextel does not at all advertise the fact that people can download lots of midlets from third party sites).

Originally posted by Aaron O'Brien:
Hey,
A General question...
With all of the free software out there for Palm devices, do you think that it hurts or helps developers(in general) as far as developing their own programs that might not be half bad...but also done by someone else for free.
Thanks,
Aaron O'Brien SCJP2

[Michael Yuan]

Originally posted by a sanjuan:
well, here's my two cents, for what it's worth.
i think there are good points and bad points to the proliferation of free apps.

I am a strong supporter of free (as in speech) software. I think competition between free and commercial software does exist in consumer market.
However, this is not the case for enterprise applications -- each application has to be customized or even customly designed from ground up.
I see the wireless useage in the US will tilt toward enterprise applications in the future (field agents, factory floor specialists etc.) It is very different from the hobbist game market.

[a sanjuan]

good point about the enterprise software. there are some big names in the game market though.
in the consumer market, the distribution channel for commercial vs freeware apps are deliberately made different so that it is actually hard for the common consumer to acquire apps that are outside the channel of their wireless carrier. as an example, again, nextel does NOT provide links or easy ways for customers to download apps outside their own catalog.
in fact, as the j2me providers move to using end-to-end distribution channels (e.g. sunbscription based, try-before-you-buy), OTA distribution (which is FAR easier than using cable) will cause the bulk of users to use one single source for apps - their carrier/phone vendor.

Originally posted by Michael Yuan:

I am a strong supporter of free (as in speech) software. I think competition between free and commercial software does exist in consumer market.
However, this is not the case for enterprise applications -- each application has to be customized or even customly designed from ground up.
I see the wireless useage in the US will tilt toward enterprise applications in the future (field agents, factory floor specialists etc.) It is very different from the hobbist game market.

[Ruchik Bhatt]

Hi David Hemphill and James White,
I am new to the J2ME field. Can you tell be how J2ME is different from other platforms built for the same purpose(like microsoft's CE)