Jonathan - J2ME vs eVB

[Zheng Huang]

I have recently joined a team of developing a mobile service application. The platform is embedded Visual Basic on Windows CE. I asked why we don't use J2ME. The answer is that the most wireless applications on market were done in eVB and J2ME will not be ready for the real application till 2007. What is your opinion on this? Do you know the real application that is using J2ME?
I am a Java developer. I am hoping that I can have enough things to convince the team to change the platform. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
TIA
Zheng

[Lasse Koskela]

"2007" sounds a bit like the decision makers had strong Visual Basic backgrounds... However, the fact that your target platform is running WinCE makes the decision justified (assuming that you're not expected to port the application to Palm, Symbian, etc anytime soon).
J2ME is already used in real-life applications but the target platforms for these applications are mostly non-Microsoft (WinCE, PocketPC). J2ME would be a viable choice for WinCE/PocketPC handhelds as well if only they'd come with a JVM installed by default...
The question of using Java versus using VB is basically based on the same arguments than the question of using Java versus VB on the desktop. Java provides portability, VB provides great platform integration.

[Michael Yuan]

If you have to use a Microsoft development platform for PocketPC, you should at least choose .NET Compact Framework. eVB does not have a future. Read my articles about J2ME and the .NET CF from the links in my signature.

[Jonathan Knudsen]

Well, I've seen lots of impressive statistics about J2ME, but it's mostly about cell phones. I think Sun is having trouble addressing the PDA space. Personal Profile would be the solution for Pocket-PC type devices but neither Personal Profile or PersonalJava has been widely deployed in that space.

[Fred Grott]

I agree with Jonathan as I did a search for either MIDP on PDAs or PersonalProfiel on PDAs with MIDP several months back..
Are the PersonalJava implementors on PDAs moving towards the PP on MIDP 2.0 as theri transition process tonew MIDP 2.0?
I still don;t have a full clear answer that I like or can depend upon....

[Burk Hufnagel]

Originally posted by Jonathan Knudsen:
Well, I've seen lots of impressive statistics about J2ME, but it's mostly about cell phones. I think Sun is having trouble addressing the PDA space. Personal Profile would be the solution for Pocket-PC type devices but neither Personal Profile or PersonalJava has been widely deployed in that space.

Seems backwards that it's tougher to address devices that have more capbility than cell phones. Doesn't it?

[Michael Yuan]

Originally posted by Fred Grott:
Are the PersonalJava implementors on PDAs moving towards the PP on MIDP 2.0 as theri transition process tonew MIDP 2.0?

Both. Noka/Symbian will migrate to MIDP v2.0 from Symbian OS v7.0. PersonalJava and PP are not on their roadmap. On the other hand, IBM is doing a lot in the PP space.

[Burk Hufnagel]

Originally posted by Zheng Huang:
I have recently joined a team of developing a mobile service application. The platform is embedded Visual Basic on Windows CE. I asked why we don't use J2ME. The answer is that the most wireless applications on market were done in eVB and J2ME will not be ready for the real application till 2007. What is your opinion on this? Do you know the real application that is using J2ME?
I am a Java developer. I am hoping that I can have enough things to convince the team to change the platform. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
TIA
Zheng

It may actually be a political, not technical, decision. Ask around and you may find out that most of the developers are MS fans, or that they've already spent time learning eVB.
If that's the case it may not matter what sort of proof you can offer them.
Good luck on your quest,
Burk
[ June 27, 2003: Message edited by: Burk Hufnagel ]

[Lasse Koskela]

Originally posted by Michael Yuan:
If you have to use a Microsoft development platform for PocketPC, you should at least choose .NET Compact Framework. eVB does not have a future.

Not that I would be developing anything with .NET CF (or the eVB) but are .NET CF applications "portable" (as in "recompilation") to older Pocket PCs who don't have a .NET runtime (if one is needed at all)? I believe there aren't that many devices out there supporting the CF?

[Michael Yuan]

Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:
Not that I would be developing anything with .NET CF (or the eVB) but are .NET CF applications "portable" (as in "recompilation") to older Pocket PCs who don't have a .NET runtime (if one is needed at all)? I believe there aren't that many devices out there supporting the CF?

No, .NET CF application would not run on older PPCs that do not have .NET runtime installed. But you can always install one yourself. It is just a CAB file to be synced to the device.
Starting from last month, all future PPC and Microsoft SmartPhone devices will have .NET CF pre-installed. That is a large market considerring the wide availibility of pocketpc.
But of course, you can always install your own J2ME runtime on those devices.

[Lasse Koskela]

Originally posted by Michael Yuan:
But of course, you can always install your own J2ME runtime on those devices.

Actually, the installation of a JVM is kind of a problem. At least some couple of months ago there weren't too many options for a free JVM on PocketPC (iPaq)... How is the installation process of the JVM (in general as this obviously may differ from device to device)? Is it feasible for a typical user to do by himself? For example, I remember one JVM wanting to replace the existing PocketPC operating system with the JVM.

[Jignesh Patel]

Hi TIA,
I am in same dilemma, I am strong java fan.
Could u please assist me if you are able to convince your team members.
Because It is not easily acceptable evb perform at equal level of j2me.
my mail id is [e-mail]