Medical Student -> Java programmer...please help.

[etanercept]

Hi
I'm currently a 3rd year medical student @ a U.S medical school. I am beginning to regret my decision to enter medicine. Medicine is dying in the US, whereas IT is just too red-hot to ignore anymore. The details are too much for this space.
Before beginning med school, I did a year of Comp. Sci (after doing a B.S in biochem)...C++, Assembly, Cobol. it was OK if not a bit boring.
Anyways, I'm thinking of getting back into programming - Java. How should a semi-experienced programmer start w/ Java? I've been to B&N and seen dozens and dozens of books about "teach yourself java" and they seem ok. but will these books help me learn enough to eventually get a job freelancing? what are your suggestions for someone willing to self-learn? Will I even *GET* a gig without any paid experience?
I've read many of your posts and you all seem very knowledgable...please help!!

- Doctor in Distress
[This message has been edited by etanercept (edited September 10, 2000).]

[Ray Marsh]

Your comment the "Medicine is dying in the US" is both ironic and puzzling.
As for your prospects of getting work as a Java Developer, I've heard of companies needing Java people so badly that they hire with 0 experience. The first job programming is alot like getting the first big break as an actor. Not to that extreme, but it takes a good deal of tenacity to land that first job, in most situations. You need to be realistic as to salary and patience is a valuable virtue. Once you're experienced (roughly 2 years) then you can pretty much demand market rate or jump to someone who will pay. 2 years may be a bit long for Java. Supply and demand rule the roost in this arena. And currently demand is high for Java people.
Hope this helps.
[This message has been edited by Ray Marsh (edited September 10, 2000).]

[etanercept]

Hi
the reason I say "medicine is dying" is b/c of the amount of time: 1) spent writing and documenting EVERYTHING you did..and some things you DIDN'T do. 2)spent talking to barely high-school educated clerks over insurance policies. 3)spent worrying about malpractice lawsuits and on and on....more time is spent writing in the patient's chart than w/ the patient.
oh not to mention that I'd make less as a doctor than a java programmer (if $100/hr is the going rate for java). doesn't make sense man..
[This message has been edited by etanercept (edited September 10, 2000).]

[Eric Barnhill]

I recall reading somewhere else recently, that the hand of government regulation (directly and through fear of lawsuits) has gotten so heavy and intrusive that many doctors say if they had to do it all over again, they would have gone into another field.
You may be making the right decision, particularly if you dislike bureaucracy and paperwork.

[kwame Iwegbue]

I am an Intern in a NY Hosp, and I totally argee with everything you're saying. I'm currently preparing for the Sun certification, and I may have some advice for you, etanercept! actually from all the info I've gathered and a couple of books I've read, It shouldn't be such a big deal. If you can Pass the step 1 boards, this should be a peace of cake! From what I gather, some employers consider the scjp to be equivalent to 1 yr experience. It's worth a shot. I'm currently in the neuro rotation which gives me some time to read. I seriously regret not having the common sense and courage to quit this thing a lot sooner.
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"Sometimes, not getting what you want can be a wonderful stroke of luck!"

[Anonymous]

Eternalcept,
I understand what you are going through. the situation is pretty bad for people in the medical profession. But even if you want to
be a computer scientist, I think an MD degree may help you greatly in the long run, plus I think it is going to take a few years before you can make a decent salary. So I think a gradual
move will be a better approach!
just my two cents!
Chengx

[etanercept]

Hi
yes, it HAS become so beaurucratic and governmentally intrusive that docs are frustrated- if not disgusted. I should've seen it coming before I started med school..oh well.
Kwame, I've emailed you. good to know I'm not alone!
I think that even if I end up hating medicine by the end of this sem. (dec)., I will still get my degree. after all, I'm so deep under, I may as well get something to show for it.
any suggestions where I should start? I don't even know what SCJP (?) is ...? I do have C++ exp. though.
-etanercept

[Tony Alicea]

etanercept:
"SCJP" is a wrong abbreviation of the title "Sun Certified Programmer for the Java 2 Platform"
It is a certification exam (59 questions) that Sun gives to those who want to prove a good basic knowledge of Java. Of course if you already are a Java programmer you may not feel the need to get Certified (and even then, it varies). But if you have NO professional experience in Java and want to work as a Java programmer, then Sun Certification is worth it. (The exam costs $150).
If you already know C++ then two books may be of use: THINKING IN JAVA (by Bruce Eckel, now in its second edition) and JUST JAVA 2 by Peter van der Linden. Also the CORE JAVA books, vols 1 & 2 by Cornell and Horstmann.

[etanercept]

thanks Tony. I think I've seen the Just Java book at the bookstore...I'll check it out.

Kwame, I emailed you, but it didn't go thru. could you post your address?

[kwame Iwegbue]

[e-mail]
I new there had to be some other poor slob out there, with the same problems I had! we need to talk guy.

[John Takacs, D.P.M.]

Greetings!
I'm in a similar situation as you. I think we really need to start some type of email list/group.
I want to encourage you to take the plunge, however, I would go ahead and complete the MD degree as you are in your 3rd year.
I am a podiatrist. I went through 8 years of education and completed a 1 year residency. I practiced for 3 years in Mason City, Iowa. My 3 years of practice were perhaps the most depressing 3 years of my life. I was massively in debt with student loans, office equipment loans etc. Over half my office time was spent arguing with insurance clerks re: billing. The list goes on. Oh, lest I forget, I never made more than 30,000/year as a salary.
Finally, I asked myself, is there anything I would rather do that would pay an equivalent amount? I found a wonderful company named SAIC (Science Applications International Corporation). They have a huge billion dollar contract with the US Dept of Defense for their health care database. I was accepted as an Implementation Specialist/Trainer. I was part of a team sent world wide to any US military hospital to train the staff on the database software. My instructing background and health care background got me the job. It was the best decision I ever made. For the three years of 100 % travel, and full per diem (Tokyo, Seoul, Virginia, California, Germany, Italy, Iceland, etc) I had the time of my life, and saved a nice amount. Think about it. 100% travel fully reimbursed by the company in the form of a generous daily lump sum, and absolutely no living expenses. What a life!
I recall one moment when someone asked why I quit podiatry. At the time we were in Naples, Italy, having a delicious dinner wondering about what historic site to see over the weekend. I kind of laughed and answered my friend with a question: Where are we right now? That was the answer. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought that I would be travelling Europe, having an Italian suit custom made, or visiting Paris one weekend just to see my aunt. As a podiatrist I was lucky to barely pay my expenses. With my IT job I was saving most of my salary, no stress and a straight 9 - 5 job. Incredible.
Now, I'm mapping out the future and believe that Java is it. I am already an Oracle DBA and I believe that Java will complement that skill.
Let's keep in touch.
Regards,
John
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John Takacs, DPM