Win a copy of Testing JavaScript Applications this week in the HTML Pages with CSS and JavaScript forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Bear Bibeault
  • Ron McLeod
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Paul Clapham
Sheriffs:
  • Tim Cooke
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Junilu Lacar
Saloon Keepers:
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Holloway
  • fred rosenberger
  • salvin francis
Bartenders:
  • Piet Souris
  • Frits Walraven
  • Carey Brown

Even SCJD won't give you a job

 
Greenhorn
Posts: 14
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Just want to share with those who are new to java and think they will make big money because they became SCJP + SCJD. Couple of my friends are SCJDs. Because they have little experience, they can't find a job. The certification won't help you find a job.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 183
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The cert. will not guarantee you to find a job, but it will help open the door for an interview. Without the cert., you will even have a smaller chance in opening that door!
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 289
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Is this thread not misplaced ???
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 477
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Yes Herbert, you are right. I will move this thread to Jobs discussion forum.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 56
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would also chime in that certifications will not get you a job. They can however help you get an interview, which is more than half the battle. Given the current market though, without solid experience, it's hard to find any job at all. And almost certainly you MUST have a degree in CS (or very close like math or EE) these days, for a junior level type position.

Originally posted by Sandra Wong:
Just want to share with those who are new to java and think they will make big money because they became SCJP + SCJD. Couple of my friends are SCJDs. Because they have little experience, they can't find a job. The certification won't help you find a job.


 
Greenhorn
Posts: 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
What about someone with Java Architect certification and master degree in computer science, but only 1 year of experience?
Looks like only people with 3+ years of java experiences get a job these days! Sigh.........
 
Greenhorn
Posts: 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm wondering if this preference is actually rational for the companies? Would the average person with 3 years of (possibly bad) experience actually do a better job than the average person with a SCJD?
John
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 503
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
April:

- You mentioned that you have an MS-Computer Science as well as the Sun Architect Certification.
- Is your degree from USA? Are you US-Citizen (meaning not an H1B).
----------
If you are USA-Citizen (not H1B) and your degree is from USA - you should not have trouble finding a job. Things may not jump off the wall at you - but you are definitely employable. I assume you did some internships or whatever to get some type of experience in the IT field.
You may have to relocate - tough!!! - that's the game right now.
Regarding the jobs that say 3+ years experience required. Go ahead and apply to them. Screw their experience requirements and go for it. YOU MUST DO THIS!!!
-----------
Is the programmer's certification and architect certification by itself going to get you a job - nope / no way / no how. Been discussed ten thousand times before on this job board.
But, combine it with an MS-CS degree (in USA) - and you have a totally kick-ass arsenal for your resume.
As M Prembroke mentioned - all of this preparation (school/certifications) - is to get you in the door for an interview. You should be getting interviews - perhaps 1 per week. Probably more.
As for rejections - who cares. You get 'em - you toss 'em - you forget about 'em.
Am I being too light hearted (not serious) here. Not at all!!! You will get rejections. Lots of them. Your number one priority is to stay focused and get job offers. That's it - period!!! So do it!!!
You should have 1 job offer for every 5 on-site interviews you go on. If you know how to play the interview game - then you should bat around 50% to 75%.
It's the game. You've certainly paid the price. No get out there and kick some rear-end and get a job. Not just any job - but a job that YOU want.!!!
Please tell us of you success story!!! IT WILL HAPPEN!!!
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)
[This message has been edited by John Coxey (edited April 30, 2001).]
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1871
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
friends
after passing my SCJP I thought I will be getting a good job as a Java programmer but u see after 2 month vigorous Job hunting I was able to get one project that too in VB and MS Access because I have done the project in Vb and MS Accees before. SCJP never helped me. So I think it is better to do a good project in Java after clearing SCJP and then go for job hunting.
 
John Coxey
Ranch Hand
Posts: 503
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Sameer Jamal:
We need more information here.
1. What is your IT background?
2. Your degrees. US or foreign colleges.
3. Are you US-Citizen or H1B.
-----
Suggestion. Given your name - it looks like Indian. If you are US-Citizen - you need to indicate that - up front on your resume. Companies (the big boys anyhow) are separating US-Citizens from the H1B folks.
-----
Get back to us on items 1,2,3 above.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)
 
April Adam
Greenhorn
Posts: 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

What do people think about the BrainBench EJB
and Brain Bench JSP exams?
Are they reliable indicators of one's skills?
Where do one get mock BrainBench exams?
To answer your questions:
(1) US Citizen with MAster degree in computer science
from University of California & Bachelor in EE from Caltech
(2) held 3 jobs in last 22 months; divestiture,
restructuring and then layoff. It smoked like hell...
(3) In high-tech area, it looks like all the java jobs are gone 2 days after they are posted. High tech areas with higher layoff-rate are worse off for certified-entry-level techies; because
the more experienced laid-off-people or the cheaper H1 folks
get the edge.
Some consulting firms are offering $27-$30/hour in various Midwest and Upper NewYork for 6 months contract. It is awful.
I hate to switch job every 6 months. 6 months ago, the job market was much better; it has gotten much much worse since then.
 
John Coxey
Ranch Hand
Posts: 503
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
April:
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, the market is rough going right now. But you need to stay focused and stay positive. I know... Everywhere you turn, all you see is depressing thoughts. I have to believe that 50% of it is just people venting their feelings.
I would hope that once you hit the 2 or 3 year mark - that things would stabilize.
-------
Looking at your response...you are definitely employable - of all the people on this board. You may have to open up to the possibility of relocation - yuck!!! - but you gotta do what you gotta do.
Regarding the layoffs - I am in the exact situation. Been lied too, been crapped on. The same game happened in the trucking industry 15 yrs ago (back when you couldn't pay to get a job - now look at them beg for drivers).
Regarding brainbench - they are a nice prep tool - but are worthless in the industry. The SCJP/SCJD/SCJArchitect are much better indicators.
----
My advice.
- Stay positive (your #1 goal).
- Keep hitting the market (nationwide, too).
- You say you have SCJP2 and the Developer exam. Do not dilute resume with the Brainbench stuff. I would list degrees (reverse order with MS on top). I would then followup with the two Sun exams. Leave off the Brainbench (it's like putting your high school on the resume --- much much too pushy).
------
Good News though. The market is slowly picking up. Been getting more and more phone calls the past week or so. Also, since you are US-Citizen - hit the defense contractors (Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon). They have offices nationwide.
Do not worry about the layoffs and your chances for landing another job - it's the game. And right now, EVERYONE seems to have been laid off at one time or another.
Keep the faith.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)
 
He puts the "turd" in "saturday". Speaking of which, have you smelled this tiny ad?
Building a Better World in your Backyard by Paul Wheaton and Shawn Klassen-Koop
https://coderanch.com/wiki/718759/books/Building-World-Backyard-Paul-Wheaton
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic