Is These Sun Certification is Worth while

[Anurag Mishra]

I am very muchm confused that investing such a great amount in doing these certification are worth while or not, means is these certificates can help us or give preference to us in getting better jobs. Is there any demand for java is left in the market or not. Plz clear my doubts.
Anurag Mishra

[frank davis]

For people with only certification and no experience, there is no demand at this time.
If you have more than 2 years experience, there is still some demand, although you may have to travel out of city or State to find it.
[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: herb slocomb ]

[John Harby]

I think you can learn alot from preparing for the test and taking it. Unfortunately since many people are certified, I won't guarantee that it will give you a job.
John Harby
JCP Member
JSR 155 Expert Group

[Ernest Lee]

I started to see some job postings saying "Java Certified Developer/Programmer prefer, etc..."
Good news!

[Merlin]

Where (which site) did you see jobs asking for certified programmers/developers?
What are the most popular sites to look for jobs? (dice, monster..?)
Thank you
MMK
SCJP2

[Jim Yingst]

Merlin - we really need to you to re-register with a first and last name as your display name. Sorry if this wasn't clear at the time you registered - we've recently upgraded our system. (See previous discussion here.) Thanks.
[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

[Merlin M Koppula]

Jim,
At the time I registered, I dont think there was a restriction that display name should be the full name. Later, I did try to change my display name, but I guess that is not something that we can change in our profile. I had to re-register with a different name.
My suggestion is that it would be better to be able to change the display name in profile, with out being forced to re-register with a different login name. I still see a lot of members whose display name is not their full name.
Thanks.
MMKoppula
SCJP2

[Sajid Raza]

Well, all I can add is that unless you have experience certification do not mean anything. I've got both the programmer and developer certification with respectable scores 90% (1999) 96% (2001) and the employers showing interest in me only do so because of my VB/COM experience.
Plus, most Java jobs really are J2EE jobs, therefore, SCJP and SCJD aren't really helpful with those. Maybe the SCWD would help, but I wouldn't count on it.

[Mark Fletcher]

I think certification certainly helps if you are trying to break into Java programming as a profession. For instance a person with no commercial experience and no certification is a lot less attractive to employ than a person with experience.
At the same time, I think it helps if you have experience with another language such as VC++, and you have certification in Java.. then it shows that you can program in a language with similar syntax and the move to a java profession shouldnt be hard.
Personally I think this bias on experience isnt all that useful at times, for example how do you quantify the difference between a programmer with 2 years experience in a certain language to a person with 3 years experience?
Cheers,
Mark

[Ghulam Rashid]

I certification is alwez helpful. You will get proprity over non-certified Professional.
Good Luck

[Sameer Jamal]

Originally posted by Sajid Raza:
Well, all I can add is that unless you have experience certification do not mean anything. I've got both the programmer and developer certification with respectable scores 90% (1999) 96% (2001) and the employers showing interest in me only do so because of my VB/COM experience.
Plus, most Java jobs really are J2EE jobs, therefore, SCJP and SCJD aren't really helpful with those. Maybe the SCWD would help, but I wouldn't count on it.

[Sameer Jamal]

Originally posted by Sajid Raza:
Well, all I can add is that unless you have experience certification do not mean anything. I've got both the programmer and developer certification with respectable scores 90% (1999) 96% (2001) and the employers showing interest in me only do so because of my VB/COM experience.
Plus, most Java jobs really are J2EE jobs, therefore, SCJP and SCJD aren't really helpful with those. Maybe the SCWD would help, but I wouldn't count on it.

same with me I am also a Sun certified Java Programmer , but I am working on Vb/COM even I am not MCSD , But Recruiter prefer for VB because of prior experience

[Mark Fletcher]

Hi,
If your recruiter keeps putting you forward for VB jobs, despite your Java experience, then I suggest youre probably going with the wrong recruiter.
Dont be pigeon holed by a recruiter, theyre pushing you for VB jobs because:
a) It maximises your chance of getting into the VB position that youre being pushed into, so that
b) They get their nice little signing bonus.
Remember that recruiters are supposed to help you find the job that *you* want. While the number of available Java positions may have dropped due to the global slump, the number of money hungry recruiters hasnt.
Go find a recruiter that will be willing to push you towards Java jobs. If they are not willing to push you for Java positions, then request that your resume be taken off their databases and go find another!
Best of luck,
Mark

[Joseph Hammerman]

If you have experience in VB and cerifications in Java, you are going to be perceived as stronger in VB than in Java. I have been a contract programmer for a long time, and I have found that it is hard to get established in a new area. I think you are trying gor too much immediate results from a certification. I would recommend looking for jobs that require both VB and Java.

[Ashik Uzzaman]

Hi all,
Then what should be the correct choice for me (SCJP, SCWCD) in Software Developement section who has one-and-half year teching experience only but no project experience...

[Dharmesh Chheda]

Hello all
I personally feel that giving sun certification is of minimal use these days .. cause i have seen ppl in my firm too .. failing interviews even though they are sun certified .. and theres more... i think it only gives you a very minor plus point being one sun certified... i think that its better to go for .. product based certification like the ones which IBM n guys have ..

[Angela Poynton]

I think going for Certification says something about you.
It proves that Java is something you are keen on because you are willing to spend time & money studying for certification.
It proves you can be self-motivated.
It proves that you at least know the basics of Java programming. (I know someone who got a job as a Java Developer. They claimed they had over 2 years Java experience, in fact they had never written code in their life, they had just eard that there was lots of demand and money in that area, and because the new employer didn't check out the reference he gave he got the job .... didn't last very long though )
So I think if someone is looking at your resum� and they see that you have no professional experience but are certified then they should see that you also have the qualities described above.
I got my job straight out of college. My degree was in Film and Video and the only expeience I had of anything remotly linked to coding was writing BASIC programmes on my Amstrad CPC464 when I was a kid and designing a HTML website while i was at college. No matter how silly this seemed I mentioned these things at my interview, I think this proved to them that despite my lack on knowledge now, what I did have was motivation and interest, two very important qualitites that every interviewer looks for.

[Ashik Uzzaman]

Originally quoted by Dharmesh :

... i think that its better to go for .. product based certification like the ones which IBM n guys have ..

I disagree.
First as i have told earlier that i don have project experience, still i have been getting edges over others who were non-certified in my locality. May be certificates r not employers r looking for, but it proves ur area of interest. But i disagree not in this point with Dharmesh rahther in the fact vendor-oriented certfied professionals will get limited access to the particular vendors (like IBM) and to get all the doors open we should avoid it. I mean Sun certifications should be better counted in the indisutry on n average than IBM or other tool-based certifications....

[Jim Petersen]

My experience is similar to most posted here... I'm not sure whether we'll see a return to the 'good old days' again where you could rock up with no commercial experience and get that great jojb in a high profile company
I would have preferred a job in Java but I'm getting hired (today!!! after a hunt of one week) on my perl / intranet / project experience. Still with luck and a sympathetic manager in hopfully can build some things in Java while I'm there to boost the CV to make it more Java-centric next time I job hunt. Bottom line in this type of market commercial experience is king. From this rant it would seem that its made sitting my SCJP a bit of a waste - no? It made me a better programmer and gave me a taste for the langauge in so much that I'd like to get the other two certs(Web and Developer) done by year end.
Good luck to those hunting -

[Axel Janssen]

I was a LotusDomino developer/ small scale project manager when I started SCJP. Then I wanted to start Servlet/JSP, but I realized that I needed more fundamental skills in Java as such to really understand the Servlet/JSP stuff.
I am very convinced that what I learnt about object oriented things during my not_in_a_hurry exam preparation helps me a lot even in LotusDomino projects. Only problem is that I dont like DominoProgramming since I know Java, which is much better eco-system (programming language, magazines, newsgroups, this forum, books).
Now I will head for IBM 488 before Sun Web components, because my company needs that to hold IBM-business partner status (From my position: Thank you IBM, other people dont like that politics). Maybe for people in the job search its good idea to mix vendor-specific and non-vendor-specific exams.
If u are in a project theres allways a deadline and knowledge of tools speed u up a little. And great part of the management people still believe in a exagerate way in the magic of tools.
Good luck to those hunting -
We produce producer goods and I things should go up after a recesion.
Dont know if this don't employ-nobody-new politics is really inteligent.
+ O.k. human relations in the company settle a little, especially better communication between sales and tech stuff (because we got to know each other better)
- Could be more new ideas. There is a not_really_elaborated moreJava plan in the company. I would like to have more people around who really have more solid foundations, but they won't employ s.o. new now.
Axel
[ February 06, 2002: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]

[Dharmesh Chheda]

Originally posted by Ashik uzzaman:
Originally quoted by Dharmesh :

I disagree.
First as i have told earlier that i don have project experience, still i have been getting edges over others who were non-certified in my locality. May be certificates r not employers r looking for, but it proves ur area of interest. But i disagree not in this point with Dharmesh rahther in the fact vendor-oriented certfied professionals will get limited access to the particular vendors (like IBM) and to get all the doors open we should avoid it. I mean Sun certifications should be better counted in the indisutry on n average than IBM or other tool-based certifications....

hello again ..
i still have a point to prove .. i mean we in our firm have a whole team of sun certified professionals but it didnt help .. but the moment we guys ourselves certified in websphere and stuff .. we are stable since then ..
but its not that you just go out and give any certification.. i mean that IBM has a whole range of products right from ecommerce, database, to messaging softwares .. so i think that gives a more open area and also there are less ppl certified in this field .. .. rather than SCJP.....

[mahadevan raja]

hi all,
i read ur posts,i shall now share my views and feelings,our software team had 13 programmers,out of which 4 were ibm certified and others were sun certified,i do agree that it was bcoz of this certificate v all got job,now v r still working but they r not,y coz they r sun certified,ibm certification plays the role here.
bye.