Server Side Java - $20 an hour !!!

[Niel Henry]

Title: SWE/Contractor- java on the beach 831 Skills: N-tier architecture, JAVA, XML, WAP, XSL
Date posted: 2002-09-13
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Area code: 831
Tax term: CON_W2
Pay rate: $20 hr
Length: 2-6 months
I'm switching to .Net.

[Rufus BugleWeed]

You can run, but you can't hide.

[John Coxey]

All:
- You can spend 8 weeks in a truck-driving school and make US$40K your first year.
- Eventually, the market will even itself out - if we get this H1B mess under control.
Johnny

[Niel Henry]

And just how is this H1B thing staightened out? Best you can expect to lower the quotas to what they were. That still leaves a large number of H1Bs in place, poviding "flexible labor" and skewing the wage structure for everyone.
By the time any change is implemented, the economy will pick and everyone will adjust to lower expectations.

[Tom Salyers]

Originally posted by King Henry:
Title: SWE/Contractor- java on the beach 831 Skills: N-tier architecture, JAVA, XML, WAP, XSL
Pay rate: $20 hr

Erm...$20 an hour? In California? Do they supply the Top Ramen, too, or is that extra?
And to think people told me that the federal government pays less than contracting...

[Abadula Joshi]

$20/hr is not a bad rate if they pay for your housing, transportation and provide lunch and dinner. I guess this part was just missing in the ad, right ?

[John Dale]

Which would you rather be doing for $40k/year? Driving a truck, or programming a computer? It seems reasonable to me the price of a job should depend on a variety of factors, some of which would contribute to higher pay for programming, and some that would be contributing to higher pay for driving a truck.
Will "cleaning up the H1B mess" really make a big difference in the market? In a separate thread,How much does H1B get paid?, there are some employment figures for "programmers and analysts", among other things. At first glance, and assuming that this INS category includes "software engineers" as well as programs and system analysts, these figures suggest on the order of 10% of such jobs in the US are H1B (more that I imagined, but I don't know much about these things). I have difficulty imagining that demand for such jobs is so inelastic that a 10% supply difference is making a huge difference in what programmers and software engineers are paid on the average.
As for $20/hour for contract work: If they are paying for housing, food, and transportation, it may look better, but don't forget about income taxes on all of those benefits.

[JiaPei Jen]

This job ad is with the JustTechJobs.com. The job ($15-$20/hour) is in San Jose, California.
Software Application Engineer - The Cadre Company

Location: US-CA-North-San Jose
Company: The Cadre Company
Posted: 9/21/2002
Job Skills: ACCESS, ASP, C/C++, Exchange, Java, SQL Server, Visual Basic, Web, Windows
Job Type: Either W2 or 1099
Start Date: Oct 1st
Pay Rate: $15 - $20 / hour
Travel: %
Will Accept Contractors
Start-Up Company

Job Description:
To develop and code new application integrating database with HTML code and graphics.
Required Skills:
Windows API, C, C++, Java, HTML, VB, Database, SQL, 2+ industry exp., completed new application project
Desired Skills:
.Net, database architecture
Contact Information:
Robert Ross
Email Robert Ross

The Cadre Company
2075 Winchester Blvd #105
Campbell, CA
408-871-1412 T
408-273-6029 F
http://www.realwebtown.com

[Pradip Bhat]

This means rates of programmers in US are comparable to that of many countries like India/Finland/China

[John Coxey]

John Dale:
- For US$40K/yr - gimme the truck. Remember,
that 20% of your pay (at least back in the 80's) was considered "per-diem" and was non-taxable.
- Don't have to pay US$100K + lost wages for 8 yrs of school. I have 2 undergraduate and 1 graduate degree (US colleges).
- Get "free transportation" to trout streams all over the USA. Just can't take rig into Yellowstone Park - I know - as I tried this once.
- Last two years I that I drove - made US$60K training folks how to drive.
----------
Downside:

1. 1 wreck and your career as a driver could be over -just like that.
2. Lots of hours - like 80+ hours a week.
3. Lots of scum truck drivers out there. We get stereotyped as "loosers" - even when we try to come across as "professionals".
4. Won't mention the harrasment by law enforcement.
5. Truck or trailer breakdowns - happen at worse time.
----------
But - I did it for 5 yrs - decided that I had enough and used the $$ to pay for school.
If IT market drops to US$40K/yr - then I'll just go back to trucking for awhile.
Johnny

[John Coxey]

John Dale:
- For US$40K/yr - gimme the truck. Remember,
that 20% of your pay (at least back in the 80's) was considered "per-diem" and was non-taxable.
- Don't have to pay US$100K + lost wages for 8 yrs of school. I have 2 undergraduate and 1 graduate degree (US colleges).
- Get "free transportation" to trout streams all over the USA. Just can't take rig into Yellowstone Park - I know - as I tried this once.
- Last two years I that I drove - made US$60K training folks how to drive.
----------
Downside:

1. 1 wreck and your career as a driver could be over -just like that.
2. Lots of hours - like 80+ hours a week.
3. Lots of scum truck drivers out there. We get stereotyped as "loosers" - even when we try to come across as "professionals".
4. Won't mention the harrasment by law enforcement.
5. Truck or trailer breakdowns - happen at worse time.
----------
But - I did it for 5 yrs - decided that I had enough and used the $$ to pay for school.
If IT market drops to US$40K/yr - then I'll just go back to trucking for awhile. Right now though - am taking some time off - and fly fishing all over the west.
Just got back from 3 week trip to Montana and Yellowstone Park. Nothing like standing in the middle of the Yellowstone River and having grizzly bear with cub come down to river for a drink. Got some decent photos of that. No - they didn't bother me.
John Coxey
([e-mail])