Follow up

[Manish Hatwalne]

How do I follow up with a company, when I am not too keen on joining it. I had a test, tech interviews and personal interview with the CTO of the company. They seemed quite positive, but they were little recluctant abt the pay-scale that I had asked for. In my last 2 visits or so, I did not like the company work culture much, and work also is not too exciting.
But if the other offer that I am expecting doesn't work out, I might have to join this company. How can I follow up with this comany when I am not really too keen to join it. How can I get my offer letter from them, with some more time (abt 8-10 days) before I join. They seem to be pushing me to join almost right away.
- Manish

[Prakash Dwivedi]

Try asking time by making excuses(like cant leave prev employer without giving him notice as it is morally incorrect etc etc). And even then if u find they r not convinced than join the company, but dont sign any bond (by this way u can see their work env more closely), if u find better option in a week or so, leave the company.

[Pradip Bhat]

They seemed quite positive, but they were little recluctant abt the pay-scale that I had asked for. In my last 2 visits or so, I did not like the company work culture much, and work also is not too exciting.
- Manish[/QB]

If company is reluctant about pay scale etc,why you are interested in joining?Generally employers(from middle size to big) have fixed strategy about pay scale depending upon your experience/skill/sometimes academics.This order may change from employer to employer.As you didn't like work cluture and work not exciting,you should stay with current employer or hope to get employer with 'good'culture and 'exciting' work.

[Manish Hatwalne]

Originally posted by rahul rege:

If company is reluctant about pay scale etc,why you are interested in joining?Generally employers(from middle size to big) have fixed strategy about pay scale depending upon your experience/skill/sometimes academics.This order may change from employer to employer.As you didn't like work cluture and work not exciting,you should stay with current employer or hope to get employer with 'good'culture and 'exciting' work.

I forgot to mention important point here, my company is closed so I am not employed at the moment. So....
- Manish

[chad stevens]

Hello Manish.
I was in the same situation last year. What I did is tell them the truth, that I had another interview I had promised to go to before they even passed me an interview and that I promised I would go, I wouldn't miss the opportunity with them just like your present company wouldn't want you to do the same with you. I told them this and they respected my thinking, so it sort of backfired on me as well, they purposely hurried the interviewing processes to get to offer me something before the other company. What this did is they gave me the salary I asked for, I believe only not to lose me to the other company. When I went to see them the third time they didn't tell me I would get an offer, they told me it was a personality interview, but the person literally tried to shove the contract down my throat in order for me to sign it right then and there. I asked for 2 days to think about it and they had this attitude that sort of said, "What are you complaining about? It's a great company, good team, we gave you what you asked for so we don't need to wait for your decision.' They seemed insulted. Sure, they gave me what I asked for because they charged the client 3 times my salary however, you should have seen the overtime I had to do for that company! I compared to the year before where I was making $10000 less per yearly salary, one week more vacation paid and overtime paid. I did more overtime at this quick-sign company than the other one yet at the end of the year because the other paid overtime, I made more money there! Before accepting any offer, break everything down with a calculator. Any extra week vacation paid makes a difference. Also, company x may offer you a slightly higher salary but with 8 hour work days, other companies 7 hour work days, this also makes a big difference at the end of the year. And, ask if overtime is paid and how it is paid. Good luck! Don't be shy to ask for more time, I posted something on this 2 weeks ago in this forum, do a search on my member number 35077 - the topic is: How do you tell an employer you won't accept the offer right away.
Posted on Jan 12, 2003.
Hope this helps!

[Manish Hatwalne]

Thanks Chad for your inputs. I have read the topic you posted few days ago. There are few differences in my case. One, they have not made any formal offer as such, they did look interested but I'll need to follow up with them.
The reason I'd prefer to have offer in my hand is obvious, as I would be in a better position to negotiate other offers.
As for work being exciting or not, this job would certainly involve J2EE (that's what I want to do!), but the work is more of maintainance at the moment.
As for work culture, the guys looked bored, there were no books on their desks or no library as such in the company, the notice bord had notice saying - "All staff members are supposed to register all incoming and outgoing calls in the register and no call should last for more than 2 mins..." etc stuff.
Now abt the fixed pay scale, many small-medium size companies (even few big ones) negotiate and offer you relevant position while recruiting through lateral entry. So if you are already drawing good salary and if they like your profile, they'll take you as a Sr. s/w engineer or team leader (depending upon the company), even though the requirement ad says "S/W Enginner". It happens...
In my situation, I'd prefer to start working ASAP and I am prepared to compromise a bit, but then I am not prepared to *do anything*, for I am not that insecure and hence not very desperate.
So, how do I follow up and how do I negotiate?
TIA,
- Manish

[chad stevens]

Hi Manish.
I have been told that you must be honest with others but more with yourself. If there is nothing else out there and according to you this is the first opportunity that comes your way within the last 3 months, take it. It all depends where you live. If you live in a city, then more opportunities should come your way. You must like what you do, and most important, the people you work with. You don't seem to be too thrilled about the interviewers bored looks. Maybe I got the wrong impression reading your mail. Many times they were going to hire me somewhere for a higher salary than another place but they were uncertain when the java project was going to start and that I was to do VB debugging until it starts. I didn't take this job, I took the other one. Why? Because I had a feeling that once the project isn't there it may never be there, so was the case when I found out 5 months later, and also when they start making you do something else then you may be stuck with it because you will know it more than the rest they hire later. The question is, do you have any other opportunities or will you have many? I would wait if so, if not, ask them you need 2 weeks to think about your offer. Wait for them to call you and offer you something on paper, all companies must do that. Once they give it to you, the ball is in your court the minute you walk out with it saying you must think about it. If you would sign it on the spot, it may give them the impression that you are desparate in a sense or are willing to accept their standards. If you at least take a few days, they will try their best to accomodate your needs. If you need to know more, let me know.

[Manish Hatwalne]

Well, as I had anticipated they've come up with "yes" response, but then the sal would be even less than what I was drawing, though I don't have the exact figure. Next, I'll need to get in touch with them to work out details personally, how can I negotiate at this stage? How to buy time? Is it advisable to tell them that you are waiting for another offer? I am doubtful abt doing this...
- Manish

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
Well, as I had anticipated they've come up with "yes" response, but then the sal would be even less than what I was drawing, though I don't have the exact figure. Next, I'll need to get in touch with them to work out details personally, how can I negotiate at this stage? How to buy time? Is it advisable to tell them that you are waiting for another offer? I am doubtful abt doing this...
- Manish

Well, you've got 3 options:
1) Lie
You can come up with some excuse as to why you can't decide right away. This is immoral, but unfortunately works. If I caught a candidate/employee lying he'd lose a lot fo credability in my eyes.
2) Obscure
You can try to be vague about why you need a delay. This isn't outright lying, necessary. For example, perhaps you want a few days to discuss it with a significant other, or parents. That's not the top reason you need time, but it is a valid one. The hard part is finding some motivation which is both valid, and gives you sufficent time.
3) Truth
Tell them the truth. Now what is the truth here? If you're waiting for another offer and expect to get it soon, then you can reasonably ask for 1 week, 2 max. Be honest with them. If they fear another offer, they may be hiding something (e.g. "we know our salaries are low, so we need to gfet him to commit before he saees another offers and discovers this for himself"), and this will alert you to it. If the like people making rational, informed decisions, then they should support it.
Do not expect an open ended timeframe. Realistically, if you don't have an offer right now, and aren't expecting to get one in the next week, dont' bother delaying and hoping. If you are expecting to hear from another company soon, be sure to let them know of your timeframe.
--Mark

[Manish Hatwalne]

Thanks Mark!
I like "Obscure" and "Truth" suggestions, though I prefer "truth" version I am not sure if it willl yield the desirable result. It is next to impossible to have an offer in hand if I ask for 10 days time (2 weeks time is more than sufficient for me) coz "I am waiting/negotiating another offer". Unfortunately, it does not work this way here.
They are very much offering me *very low* salary, in fact this is my another question :-
For last 15/16 months or so my salary was frozen at certain amount coz my prev comp was not doing very well. Now when I negotiate my salary, I am asking for 15-20% more than what I was getting. Though similar position (in similar company) pays around 35-40% more than what I have been getting.
This comany is offering me 10-15% less than what I was getting; should one accept less pay only because he's not employed, does that give unfair advantage to the potential employer in salry negotiation.
How do I negotiate my salary in this situation with other potential employers? (This offer now is non-negotiable from their side)
TIA,
- Manish

[Mark Herschberg]

Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:

It is next to impossible to have an offer in hand if I ask for 10 days time (2 weeks time is more than sufficient for me) coz "I am waiting/negotiating another offer". Unfortunately, it does not work this way here.

Does here mean the company or your geographic area? if it refers to the company, then you should be asking yourself if this is a comapny for whom you want to work? (For the majority of companies, it doesn't work like that where I am either, but I don't care, I'll look for the needle in a haystack--so far its worked.)

Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:

This comany is offering me 10-15% less than what I was getting; should one accept less pay only because he's not employed, does that give unfair advantage to the potential employer in salry negotiation.
How do I negotiate my salary in this situation with other potential employers? (This offer now is non-negotiable from their side)

It gives them a perfectly fair advantage in salary negotiation. And yes, as you look at a dwindling bank account, you need to consider what is your priority and level of acceptable risk. My only advice is to not let them know that you are in a difficult financial situation.

--Mark

[Manish Hatwalne]

Mark,
Thanks again for you inputs
I meant for this comany and many similar companies. And as you rightly said, it doesn't work out this way for many comanies. And, I doubt if I want to work for this comapny. I did send them a mail asking for the exact salary figure, and now they have quoted even less that what we discussed (10-15% less) the other day. This offer now is 30% less than what I was drawing!!! These guys look like "best bargainers" to me...
Fortunately, it hasn't been long since I have become jobless. And I am *NOT* in a difficult financial situation. In this time I did get call from 5 companies, one declined coz they needed someone with 2 years EJB exposure. Out of remeining 4, at least 3 looked very positive. They have been delaying hiring for various reasons. Meanwhile, I have been doing some contract work as well. So it is not all that glooomy....
In fact, this annoying experience has helped me to resolve that I will not be accepting anything less than what I have quoted as my last "no regret" salary. If that means waiting for some more time, so let it be! If I am good enough, they'll hire me. Meanwhile, I'll utilize this time to study XML and EJB that I have been planning.
- Manish