• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other Pie Elite all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Ron McLeod
  • Paul Clapham
  • Liutauras Vilda
Sheriffs:
  • paul wheaton
  • Rob Spoor
  • Devaka Cooray
Saloon Keepers:
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Holloway
  • Carey Brown
  • Frits Walraven
  • Tim Moores
Bartenders:
  • Mikalai Zaikin

CBS MarketWatch: White-Collar Jobs Lost For Good

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 325
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
It is not a jobless recovery. It is a JOB LOSS recovery.
The article
Sorry, I have to remove the pasted article. The original that has been archived can be found at the CBS MarketWatch web site.
Commentary: White-collar jobs lost for good
By Dr. Irwin Kellner, CBS MarketWatch.com
Last Update: 9:52 AM ET Aug. 12, 2003
[ August 14, 2003: Message edited by: Natalie Kopple ]
[ August 14, 2003: Message edited by: Natalie Kopple ]
[ August 15, 2003: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1551
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Natalie, you're the best!
[ August 13, 2003: Message edited by: Rufus BugleWeed ]
 
Greenhorn
Posts: 19
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dr. Kellner wrote:
You can see this in the jobless rate for managers and professionals. They now account for almost a fifth of the unemployed. At the end of the 1990-91
recession, they were 11 percent; 20 years ago little more than 6 percent.


Unfortunately, if the stat is correct it confirms what I have been speculating and afraid of --- the pie is getting smaller, the wage is going down, we need to do something (unionization, lobby, and so on) to try to keep what we have for as long as possible.
Do the numbers imply that MBA and management path is not an alternative afterall? On the other hand, my neighbor has been having a hard time to find someone to mow his lawn. I don't think this kind of jobs can be offshored just yet.
Paul
 
Natalie Kopple
Ranch Hand
Posts: 325
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
It is very depressing to read the "Millionaires Interrupted" at
http://money.cnn.com/2003/08/13/pf/millionaire/millionaires_interrupted/index.htm?cnn=yes
I really wish that I could deliver some cheerful news soon.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1907
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
But immigration expert Dr. Matloff says "Job outsourcing won't be more than 5% of total software development"Otherwise you wouldn't have seen people coming nowa days on L1 Visa
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 2596
Android Firefox Browser Ubuntu
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Capablanca Kepler:
But immigration expert Dr. Matloff says "Job outsourcing won't be more than 5% of total software development"Otherwise you wouldn't have seen people coming nowa days on L1 Visa


Capablanca Kepler : Pls check your Private Message.
- Manish
 
Saloon Keeper
Posts: 27707
196
Android Eclipse IDE Tomcat Server Redhat Java Linux
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
If you're finding it hard to get someone to mow your lawn, it's probably because you think that $5 is the going rate. I've had 10-year old kids demans $25.
BTW, the difference between L1 and offshoring is mostly geographic. Either way, it doesn't count as a US job. And, based on what I'm hearing from local businesses, I think 5% offshore rate is vey much on the low side.
Finally, 2 things. 1) the link doesn't work. 2) Please don't cut and paste copyrighted works unless you have permission from the copyright owner.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 715
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello,
I see the secret clearance employment sector have giantic open house in CA. AirForce and Navy want young engineers like crazy.
BTW, how do you consider a White-Collar Job? Is nursing qualified as such because the amount money they racking in on the same par as engineering certainly not facing the same level of headache?
Regards,
MCao
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 121
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Matt Cao:
BTW, how do you consider a White-Collar Job? Is nursing qualified as such because the amount money they racking in on the same par as engineering certainly not facing the same level of headache?


I would consider nursing a white-collar job, however, the current outsourcing dilemma facing the IT industry would be highly improbable, if not impossible, to emulate in the medical field. If you required medical treatment, whether it be emergency or preventative, I doubt you would hop on the next plane to India - mainly because it would cost the insurance companies more to do so. However, if the cost of transporting patients overseas for any medical procedure becomes less than the cost locally, you can bet the insurance companies will start their own outsourcing of medical treatment. I think, though, that if that ever were to happen, the cause would affect every person regardless of their job, and the backlash would be severe. IOW, the IT outsourcing being witnessed recently seemingly only affects those directly involved in it (engineers, etal), but outsourcing medical treatment would affect just about everyone.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1479
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Stephen Pride:

...
I would consider nursing a white-collar job, however, the current outsourcing dilemma facing the IT industry would be highly improbable, if not impossible, to emulate in the medical field. ...


However, there is significant and increasing H1B & L1 visas being granted to nurses and other medical personnel. Also, there are some medical technology functions being outsourced, for example, interpretation of x-rays which were sent via internet (guess you could do the same thing with many other diagnostic data/reports - CAT scan, MRI, cardiogram, EEG, etc).
 
mister krabs
Posts: 13974
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by herb slocomb:
However, there is significant and increasing H1B & L1 visas being granted to nurses and other medical personnel. Also, there are some medical technology functions being outsourced, for example, interpretation of x-rays which were sent via internet (guess you could do the same thing with many other diagnostic data/reports - CAT scan, MRI, cardiogram, EEG, etc).


The only reason for the H1B visas for nurses is because of the incredible nursing shortage. As to the outsourcing of interpretation of medical tests, I have never heard of this, doubt it ever happens, and would love to see the crushing malpractice suits that will result. By the way, it is illegal for a doctor not licensed in the US to read a chart and make a diagnosis for a patient in the US. It is called practicing medicine without a license.
 
Paul Pullman
Greenhorn
Posts: 19
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

As to the outsourcing of interpretation of medical tests, I have never heard of this, doubt it ever happens,...


Something like this was reported on either BusinessWeek or Time late last year or very early this year.
Paul
 
frank davis
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1479
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

The only reason for the H1B visas for nurses is because of the incredible nursing shortage..


Similar arguments were made 5-8 years ago in the IT field. Supply will meet demand - the number of H1Bs for foreign nurses will increase.


As to the outsourcing of interpretation of medical tests, I have never heard of this, doubt it ever happens, and would love to see the crushing malpractice suits that will result.


"...Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston announced that it would shift a significant portion of its radiology interpretation to a location in Bangalore, India..."
http://www.radrelief.com/new_radiology.htm
Who wants to bet that this type of thing will not increase and even spread to other types of diagnostic services?
 
Author
Posts: 6055
8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think this is generally a good idea. A high school friends of mine who is an MD developed a teledermatology project years ago. Pretty cool.
Still, I'm sure the lawyers are just waiting for the first malpractice suit where the x-rays were sent overseas. The very first argument will be "a non-board US certified radiologist made a bad call." Then we get to watch who has more lobbying power, the AMA or the ABA.
--Mark
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 44
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
Still, I'm sure the lawyers are just waiting for the first malpractice suit where the x-rays were sent overseas. The very first argument will be "a non-board US certified radiologist made a bad call." Then we get to watch who has more lobbying power, the AMA or the ABA.
--Mark



Nothing can stop these foreigners from getting the US Board/certification. Heck there a lot of them already certified. I'm sure they'll be wanting to go back to their place of origin and practice there.
 
frank davis
Ranch Hand
Posts: 1479
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
I think this is generally a good idea.
--Mark


Even my little ole libertarian/free market self is starting wonder about that. The number and type of well paying jobs that have gone overseas is staggering. You have to wonder now what can't go overseas - see how the whole paradigm has shifted 180 degrees from just a few years ago? The discussion now is about what slim pickings are left over for US citizens.
If a significant amount of our workers are competing with lower paid foreigners, how can this not lower our general standard of living? Will not this trend increase?
I know the theory; reducing labor costs will allow reduction in the cost of goods and services provided to us here in the US. I think that argument has some validity and accepted it when it applied to segmented parts of the labor force, such as steel workers or garment workers. The difference now is that looking into the future its not just small segments of the labor market its almost all the well paying jobs. Should that make any difference? Maybe not, but its definitely testing the limits of my faith..
[ August 15, 2003: Message edited by: herb slocomb ]
 
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Posts: 13974
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Tim Cerillo:
Nothing can stop these foreigners from getting the US Board/certification.

Actually, that isn't true. It is very difficult to get board certified and licensed. For one thing, you must have had your medical education in the US or Canada. It is very, very hard to get a license to practice medicine if you come from a foreign school.
 
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand
Posts: 715
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Originally posted by Tim Cerillo:

Nothing can stop these foreigners from getting the US Board/certification. Heck there a lot of them already certified. I'm sure they'll be wanting to go back to their place of origin and practice there.



Hi,
The problem is in fast-driven pace economy and high living standard. These people want to have servants and live in the lapse of luxury while their minds only measure up to White-Collar income or less. In the Third-World countries people work less and play more and they want to make an income same level as the First-World. It is so illogical that their countries rank only in the Third-World. The majority people who want to go back their place of origin are usually ghetto mind people anyway. Out of the bunch only a few already have made in the US instead of sitting around in retirement, they have been lured back to their countries of origin as consultants to those countries helping those countries improvement.
Regards,
MCao
 
Don't get me started about those stupid light bulbs.
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic