Amdocs - cyprus ... any views

[Timan Wadhwani]

Hi
I have cleared the first round of tests from Amdocs.
Next month their team would be coming to india for further rounds of recruitment.

does anybody has experienced or have any idea abt their interview process, or the salary they offer. please share it with me.

If you have any other useful info , please share that also.


Thanks in advance

- Timan Wadhwani

[Arjun Shastry]

Amdocs is good company.You can say it is TCS of Israel.They have Development Center in Pune too.

[Timan Wadhwani]

do you have any info on interview process also...is it going to be same as indian companies do ?

what abt salary part ..how much do they generally offer.

i heard there cost of living is high.




- Timan

[Kishore Dandu]

Many guys I worked with(I used to work for Amdocs) who came from India likes it decently. I am not sure of their salary structure if hired in India.

Personally, I would prefer working for a Indian firm like TCS/Wipro/Infy etc because there is toomuch Israeli influence(of course they are the majority in the company) and favouratism.

Just my thoughts and suggestions.

[Billy Tsai]

The telecommunication company i am working in uses AMDOCS's billing system, there is a Amdocs team here. and sometimes we have to co work with them because our system need to call their system. but sometimes they r not very cooperative.

[Ashok Mash]

One of my friends joined Amdocs in Dublin, Ireland in April, and he is happy enough with the work and environment in there.

[Timan Wadhwani]

Thanks Kishore, Billy.

Kishore, this interview is directly for the Amdocs,Cyprus.
so It would be nice if you can share general salary structure ..and cost of living in cyprus etc.

and what is the their general interview process? is it very technology/platform centric or based on business knowledge?


- Timan
[ June 28, 2004: Message edited by: Timan Wadhwani ]

[ChanSan Mehbubani]

When my friend went for an interview,they asked him following questions:
1)Prove that every primitive recursive function is a total function.
2)Give the definition of an acceptable programming system
3)State the Pumping Lemma for context-free Languages
4)Show that the class of context-free languages is not closed under intersection
He never uttered a word ,Cyprus,Amdocs again.
[ June 28, 2004: Message edited by: Luis Inacio ]

[Timan Wadhwani]

Originally posted by Luis Inacio:
When my friend went for an interview,they asked him following questions:
1)Prove that every primitive recursive function is a total function.
2)Give the definition of an acceptable programming system
3)State the Pumping Lemma for context-free Languages
4)Show that the class of context-free languages is not closed under intersection
He never uttered a word ,Cyprus,Amdocs again.

Luis , do you mean to say all these questions were asked to a J2EE pro ?
even I dont know the answer to any of these questions.

apart from this ..was there any technical interview also?


- Timan

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Luis Inacio:
When my friend went for an interview,they asked him following questions:
1)Prove that every primitive recursive function is a total function.
2)Give the definition of an acceptable programming system
3)State the Pumping Lemma for context-free Languages
4)Show that the class of context-free languages is not closed under intersection
He never uttered a word ,Cyprus,Amdocs again.

[ June 28, 2004: Message edited by: Luis Inacio ]

That I would consider as a show-off from Amdocs side.

That happens with some interviews from other companies aswell.

But I would suggest "Ignore Amdocs, just forget it, if u have no other option then try it".

[Billy Tsai]

The project I am work on

[Dillip Mohapatra]

Hi Timan,

I beleive you must have found the answer by this time. Amdocs is the only company, about which there is a perception "Whenever you are making any international calls, there is 50% chance that your calls is through the network, for which Amdocs has provided the Billing system". It is an unique company in itself and you can not compare it with TCS/Wipro/Infy in India.
I can say, the work you do for Amdocs, you don't really work, rather you will love to work or you will enjoy while working, even when you work. A company with 7K-8K professionals around the world, the largest toal billing solution provider, having turn over more than 2.2 bn US$ is not a joke. Amdocs keeps the reputation of implementing 30 Million subscriber base, in Mannesmann (D2 Vodafone), Germany, with a database size of 13 Tera Bytes on Oracle/Solaris platform. So you can imagine the level of expertise in the company.
Only thing I can say, you are enough lucky, you will through with the interview, without being asked any questions as mentioned above.
To others, (who has a different perception), please pass thourgh your ideas in details, why it is such?

Thanks and Regards
Dillip

[Rakesh Kumar Singh]

Hi can anyone tell me the salary offered by AMDOCS at CYPRUS center.
How is the interview ..

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Dillip Mohapatra:
Hi Timan,

I beleive you must have found the answer by this time. Amdocs is the only company, about which there is a perception "Whenever you are making any international calls, there is 50% chance that your calls is through the network, for which Amdocs has provided the Billing system". It is an unique company in itself and you can not compare it with TCS/Wipro/Infy in India.
I can say, the work you do for Amdocs, you don't really work, rather you will love to work or you will enjoy while working, even when you work. A company with 7K-8K professionals around the world, the largest toal billing solution provider, having turn over more than 2.2 bn US$ is not a joke. Amdocs keeps the reputation of implementing 30 Million subscriber base, in Mannesmann (D2 Vodafone), Germany, with a database size of 13 Tera Bytes on Oracle/Solaris platform. So you can imagine the level of expertise in the company.
Only thing I can say, you are enough lucky, you will through with the interview, without being asked any questions as mentioned above.
To others, (who has a different perception), please pass thourgh your ideas in details, why it is such?

Thanks and Regards
Dillip

That is a nice wall street centric presentation of the company.

As long as someone is going to work in India and move through the ranks through merit it is ok to work for Amdocs(in my personal opinion).

But once you move to cyprus and start reporting to Israeli higherups it is a different ball game. There is no meritocracy.

Sure can be used as a starting point of a career. But, with experience for working for them in US, my take is, they just care about military style of promotions. There is no merit based outlook.

One example is: one of my collegues is promoted to a project manager just because her husband is a valuable asset and they sure don't want to piss him off.

If your plan is to move up they chain and work for years in a company, Amdocs is not for a indian, that is plain and clear. You have to prove in different ways in addition to merit to surpass the Israeli bias in the company.

[Dillip Mohapatra]

Hi,
Two questions so far,

1. Salary offered in Amdocs, Cyprus, it is totally based on based and how you perform in the interview. Salary is independent of responsbilities and positions, meaning Software Engineer doing the best may be drawing more than his/her boss. Further I must say, don't count on what you get, count on what you save at the bottom line. In fact Amdocs calculates the salary based on the market condition, local market price analysis, tax conditions etc. So at the end, when you compare your savings, it should be comparable to any other place in the world.

2. About Amdocs Management - It is true that top Amdocs officials are from Israel, but it does not mean that Indians can not reach to the top positions. I have many examples from Indian side, who reached upto Vice President level. But this is rare, I beleive Kishore agrees with me. It has to be like that. Just think, project costing 40 to 200 Million dollars, with 100 to 500 persons, (even if you hold designation of Project Manager), can you manage that. I don't think so, this is why the experienced people in the company are at the most responsbility position.

More than that, in Amdocs, a TL's responsbility is more than a Project Manager position in Indian company. By the way, I worked in Cyprus from June 99 to June 2003 as Senior Team Leader, and now I am working here in India as Project Manager, still I say this.

One more thing, everybody has their own professional perception. We can not align it even if we want, so we need to adjust. With what views, Kishore has a different comment, I don't know, but I am sure he would agree with me that, "he must have enjoyed his stay in Cyprus during Amdocs career".

Thanks and Regards
Dillip

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Dillip Mohapatra:
Hi,
Two questions so far,

1. Further I must say, don't count on what you get, count on what you save at the bottom line. In fact Amdocs calculates the salary based on the market condition, local market price analysis, tax conditions etc. So at the end, when you compare your savings, it should be comparable to any other place in the world.

2. About Amdocs Management - It is true that top Amdocs officials are from Israel, but it does not mean that Indians can not reach to the top positions. I have many examples from Indian side, who reached upto Vice President level. But this is rare, I beleive Kishore agrees with me. It has to be like that. Just think, project costing 40 to 200 Million dollars, with 100 to 500 persons, (even if you hold designation of Project Manager), can you manage that. I don't think so, this is why the experienced people in the company are at the most responsbility position.

More than that, in Amdocs, a TL's responsbility is more than a Project Manager position in Indian company. By the way, I worked in Cyprus from June 99 to June 2003 as Senior Team Leader, and now I am working here in India as Project Manager, still I say this.

With what views, Kishore has a different comment, I don't know, but I am sure he would agree with me that, "he must have enjoyed his stay in Cyprus during Amdocs career".

Thanks and Regards
Dillip

I never worked in Cyprus for Amdocs. I worked in US.

There is no concept of market analysis etc while working onsite when it comes to compensation. They pay based on local factors like supply and demand. They also base bonuses and promotions based on prevailing job market conditions.

Amdocs is the only company I worked in US where I had to work for idiots in the posts of VP and senior management levels(who are incidentally Israeli). Some of my comments are based on those experiences aswell. Can u imagine a project manager who does not know CMM and lead who is leading a J2EE project about Sun certifications. I had the funny experience of working with this kind of jokers.

Usually if u are working in Cyprus, Israel development centers there are peaks and valleys in development intensity(as explained by my ex-colleagues). If you are working on the client site for 100% percent of the time, your ass is on the fire throughout. But the company evaluations and bonuses are uniform with developments centers(even if the work demand is much higher). That really sucks.

Coming out of the company, I had a feeling of being exploited than getting more knowledge or enjoying life at Amdocs. I am pretty sure about 80% of Amdocs ex-employees who are hired in US will agree with my above opinions.

[Manish Hatwalne]

Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:


I never worked in Cyprus for Amdocs. I worked in US.

There is no concept of market analysis etc while working onsite when it comes to compensation. They pay based on local factors like supply and demand. They also base bonuses and promotions based on prevailing job market conditions.

Amdocs is the only company I worked in US where I had to work for idiots in the posts of VP and senior management levels(who are incidentally Israeli). Some of my comments are based on those experiences aswell. Can u imagine a project manager who does not know CMM and lead who is leading a J2EE project about Sun certifications. I had the funny experience of working with this kind of jokers.

Usually if u are working in Cyprus, Israel development centers there are peaks and valleys in development intensity(as explained by my ex-colleagues). If you are working on the client site for 100% percent of the time, your ass is on the fire throughout. But the company evaluations and bonuses are uniform with developments centers(even if the work demand is much higher). That really sucks.

Coming out of the company, I had a feeling of being exploited than getting more knowledge or enjoying life at Amdocs. I am pretty sure about 80% of Amdocs ex-employees who are hired in US will agree with my above opinions.

That's really some frank opinions, Kishore!!! Like most of us, I also had an experience of working with some idiots, but I doubt if I could ever point'em out explicitly on a public board. However, I have been mostly lucky as far as bosses are concerned. In my last job my boss was quite understanding and technically thorough, incidently his name was also Kishore.

However, what is most annoying is that despite of excellent product concept, highly prudent/visionary and qualified management the company didn't do well and rate of attrition was too high to sustain operations for a small product based company. All this was due to the selfish local management people who played some dirtiest politics I have ever seen. If I ever start my own company, I know I need to keep away from such suckers!!!

In the current job my boss is an American and he's jsut brilliant and quite fair. Lucky me! Touchwood!

- Manish
[ July 13, 2004: Message edited by: Manish Hatwalne ]

[Billy Tsai]

Amdocs uses BEA Weblogic and Oracle database in their product right?
by the way we r still waiting for their API from cyprus

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
Amdocs uses BEA Weblogic and Oracle database in their product right?
by the way we r still waiting for their API from cyprus

Once u get it, it will take some time to digest the framework. Also it will take couple of years to really know the nitty gritty, since that is the intent of inhouse frameworks etc(so that customer can not replace with some other company after initial system delivery).

It will take some time and frustration to know the secretive culture of 'DOX'. Its a vicious cycle you know.

[Terimaki Tojay]

I worked with Amdocs guys on a telecom app about 5 years ago. Believe me, it was a nightmare. Let me tell you about the architecture and then you figure out how it is yourself:

1. Oracle Database : No referencial integrity configuration (Foriegn keys etc.)
2. Data accessed is only from stored procedures. All referencial intergrity is taken care of here. Not much business logic here.
3. These stored procedures are accessed by COBOL code compiled into Unix based binaries. All the business logic is in here.
4. COBOL code is called from C++ wrappers, which in turn act as CORBA server side objects. The ORB they used was Orbix 2.0.

So much for the server side. Sit tight for the control flow on the client side otherwise you are gonna fall off

1. This is a webbased application built using JSP (v0.9) and servlets. JSP/Servlets make use of the command pattern EXTENSIVELY. The servlet container is JRun. JRun is attached to NetScape Enterprise server.
2. The servlets use EJBs (BMP) to get the data. EJBS are housed in WebLogic 3.1.
3. Now hold on, ok? EJBS use Amdocs' custom written JDBC driver to connect to the database.
4. Sit tight. The custom JDBC driver is not really a JDBC driver, it just implements the JDBC interfaces. Under the hood, it is really a CORBA client and connects to CORBA objects published by the server side.

Besides all this, to keep the whole application running they also had a couple of executables (kind of monitoring servers) that made sure all the components of the application are working fine.

My company bought this whole crap with source code and put us to support and enhance it. The project folded after 1 year.

I really admire the Amdocs developers who had the guts to write their own JDBC driver and stuff. While the project was a failure, I learned A LOT of technology due to it. I was not much experienced at that time and JSP/Servlet/EJB had just come out. I learnt all my J2EE concepts in through details (inner workings) in that project and I am where I am today partly because of that. I have never flunked a J2EE interview till date

Later on, while interacting with them, I learned that they have a separate "infrastructure" team that directs various teams - COBOL/Database and JSP/Servlet/EJB. The reason is that they had a lot of people with excellent business domain knowledge but they used to develop stand alone as well as mainframe apps. With the advent of Webbased stuff, they wanted to leverage the work done by those guys and still provide web based interface. So the same architecture is followed in MANY of Amdocs applications.

[Kishore Dandu]

basically the outcome is a crap.

The infra framework is decent and kind of like Struts. But it takes lot of pondering and personal relationships with Israel developers to know the internals of it(to be successful in the project).

If someone works with the same framework developers in Israel(since they are from there) they will have a edge. And who ever is hired elsewhere is a fair game.

[Manish Hatwalne]

Don't you guys sign NDA?

- Manish

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Manish Hatwalne:
Don't you guys sign NDA?

- Manish

Do u see any disclosure here. I don't see any(except bantering about the company)

[Manish Hatwalne]

I was referring to comments posted by "Terimaki Tojay" (or whatever his real name is, coz this name sounds more like abusing somebody - Teri ma ki to ... jay), I think they're discussing architecture of the Amdocs system.

- Manish

[Terimaki Tojay]

I don't think this falls under NDA.

[Ranjan Rakesh]

Hi all,

this is Rakesh from Bangalore... I have been selected by Amdocs ,Cyprus.
the HR fellow had a brief presentation.....but still there are hundreds of questions un-answered..........

can anyone plz tell me what will be my role in the project.......will they put me in development or testing........i have one year experience of C++ development n dont want to get stuck in testing.....should I join or not??
plz give me an honest opinion....

Dilip, you have a long experience with Amdocs.......please help me in taking the decision........

Request you all to send ur views..
rakesh

[Arjun Shastry]

How come they are not giving any Ad in newspapers?I surfed their website also few days back but could not find anything related to Cyprus.
Rakesh,where are they conducting this business in Bangalore?

[Don Stadler]

Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
basically the outcome is a crap.

The infra framework is decent and kind of like Struts. But it takes lot of pondering and personal relationships with Israel developers to know the internals of it(to be successful in the project).

If someone works with the same framework developers in Israel(since they are from there) they will have a edge. And who ever is hired elsewhere is a fair game.

Oh this sounds too familiar! In 2000 I worked for a Canadian software vendor who came within about 2 weeks of being bought by Amdocs. It was a done deal until a major project (on our end) came apart messily and Amdocs backed out. But if Kishore Dandu is correct (I have no reason to doubt him), this is a situation well worth avoiding. My Canadian employer (later bought by Nortel) operated the same way - and if you were based anywhere but in Toronto it was hell on earth getting the information needed to do your job at all, much less competently!

The problem with these proprietary frameworks is twofold. First, it can be near impossible to acquire the internals information you need to succeed. In that job there were two kinds of people who succeeded. You either needed to have done a minimum 6 to 12 month apprenticeship in Toronto OR did only presales work - box-chart architecture and make DAMN sure you stay away from the details of implementation!

The second problem is that you're so busy trying to do the job competently (largely failing) that you lose touch with the real trends going on in your industry. You end up actively losing ground. I lost ground for 2 years and have only really recovered the technical ground I lost (and a lot of self-confidence I also lost) over the past year or so!

Whether to go into a company like this depends upon your circumstances. If no other work is available, go for it. But if it's merely for the sake of a raise in pay or something - listen to the voice of experience - and don't do it! It's not worth it.

[Ranjan Rakesh]

hi Arjun,

they have outsourced the hiring process to a consultancy firm called Sampoorna. The test was conducted nearabout two months back.......n interviews held last week....which i cleared.....they will again visit India sometime in September.....you can send your resume to [e-mail]

Kishor.....when i asked the interviewer abt kinda work they do....his answer was they only use C,C++,Java on Solaris n backend being Oracle....
so how come something propritary???

n rightnow working with tcs..didn't learn anything by doing maintenance for one year.....so it's not at all money which is driving me to join amdocs......rather i want more responsibilities/challenges apart from decent savings

Kishor plz reply to this mail!!

regards!!
rakesh

[Ranjan Rakesh]

hi Arjun,

they have outsourced the hiring process to a consultancy firm called Sampoorna. The test was conducted nearabout two months back.......n interviews held last week....which i cleared.....they will again visit India sometime in September.....you can send your resume to [e-mail]

Kishor.....when i asked the interviewer abt kinda work they do....his answer was they only use C,C++,Java on Solaris n backend being Oracle....
so how come something propritary???

n rightnow working with tcs..didn't learn anything by doing maintenance for one year.....so it's not at all money which is driving me to join amdocs......rather i want more responsibilities/challenges apart from decent savings

Kishor plz reply to this mail!!

regards!!
rakesh

[kanchan prakash]

hi,
Can somebody tell me about interview questions which are asked in AMDOCS ?

[Ranjan Rakesh]

in interview they will mostly ask u questions abt ur project....
n u can expect some questions on C/C++ as well.....

[pradeep.bansal]

Hi Rakesh,
This is Pradeep.I have also been offered job by Amdocs,Cyprus.What you have decided?
It would be great if we could exchange the info we have about this.
You can mail me at [e-mail] in this regard.


-Pradeep

[Billy Tsai]

still waiting for their API and jar files from cyprus...............................

[Kishore Dandu]

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
still waiting for their API and jar files from cyprus...............................

u will sure get them at some point.

And it will take a year or two to figure out, what exactly is going on. They will also send 2-3 experts on the framework or API, they will make your life miserable and dominate you(also showoff that they sure have better brains etc )

[Don Stadler]

Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:


u will sure get them at some point.

And it will take a year or two to figure out, what exactly is going on. They will also send 2-3 experts on the framework or API, they will make your life miserable and dominate you(also showoff that they sure have better brains etc )

Yes, Kishore. And by the time you figure it out you're on the shite-list.

In the case of my company I'm pretty sure it wasn't entirely deliberate. The company started out as a small Canadian outfit, then suddenly grew cancerously for a few years. Once they expanded out of the core office nobody had plans for how to expand the info network to the new people in the US and Europe. So it didn't happen. Later the politics began and it got ugly.

I don't know about Amdocs of course, but my company seems to have imploded after it was finally bought by Nortel. I was out by then, thank goodness.
[ July 27, 2004: Message edited by: Don Stadler ]

[Michael Schumacher]

Hi Guys.. No, thats not my real name. Anyways, I got an offer from Amdocs as well.. the salary seems low and im vacillating whether to leave my MNC job based in India and go to Cyprus or not. Any information u guys can provide id be grateful - really grateful for.

[ChanSan Mehbubani]

Is everybody catching Cyprus boat or what?

[Ranjan Rakesh]

this time actually it's ship

[Clint Eastwood]

Hey Guys.
Want to know more about amdocs? check out my blog.
www.amdocsblogger.blogspot.com


I am a consultant that has been working on amdocs implmentations for over 8 years..