Reputation of IT guys

[Hussein Baghdadi]

Hey all.
I am wondering , how the society/people looks at the programmers and developers and the other IT guys.
what is the reputation of IT guys ?

[Tina Desai]

What stems this question? Is there something particular you want to hear?

Tina

[Hussein Baghdadi]

anything, like :
they are complicated persons or ...
every career has its reputation and I am just curious about IT field.

[HaoZhe Xu]

no sense, no blood, their friends is code, they're cold with other people, they can spend hours in coding other than with other people, they are understandless...

[Sania Marsh]

You can answer that question yourself.

How do you imagine any of the members here? You never met them, so how do you thing they look? What kind of personality do you think they have?

Another question, I'm a female I'm in my mid 20's, and I'm in IT for about 7 years.
What kind of person do you think I am?

The impression you get is the impession of most of the IT and non IT people

[Arjun Shastry]

{
how the society/people looks at the programmers and developers and the other IT guys.
}
Generally people look at them as those who sit in AC office typing somthing for 8 hours staring at monitor,and earn more than people on ground.
[ August 15, 2004: Message edited by: Arjun Shastry ]

[V Chauhan]

I agree.. In Bangalore, when you search for a rented house often you can hear the landlord saying, you are a Software Professional, so you can pay more.

Recently the WIPRO CEO even suggested the goverment to levie more tax on the IT Professionals supposedly for Bangalore's Infrastructure developement.

[B Hayes]

In my country (Canada), the average person on the street will undestand that "you work with computers" and that's about it. In most cases they equate computer knowledge with a Help Desk-like position. Ie: they think you'll know how to solve all their PC OS and hardware issues; even if you're a CIO.

The average person working in a business with an IS or IT department will have a better understanding of IT employees... but not by much. They won't normally know the difference between a Sys Admin and a Developer, for example.

Within an IT department, IT people have varying opinions of other IT people based on their role.

Overall, I find that these days (as opposed to 15+ years ago) IT employees have generally lost the stigma of being "nerds" or "geeks". The average person has a computer in their home, so it's not a geeky topic anymore.

[Mark Herschberg]

I was avoiding this thread, but after B Hayes comment I wanted to add one of my own. My ex-gf is a well education professional--one of the most senior and respcted people on Wall St. I know enough Wall St people that when she told me what she did, I was able to ask a few questions and then understand her job. However, when people asked her what I did, she would say "Mark makes web sites" (I've never worked for web based companies, made maybe a dozen web pages in my life and recently hired a graphic deisgner to create a site for me). It drove me nuts until I sat her down to explain to her what I do. We settled on "I manage other programmers." :-p

I guess I was surprised that someone so educated and in such a high tech world said "programmer = web site." I'm more used to my dad expecting me to solve every single program on his computer, "Mark, Symentec just replied to my 17 point email, and suggested I read these 58 articles and upgrade this here and install that there, is that the right thing to do?"

So I don't have an answer to how we're perceived, and think there's no right answer in general (which is why I wasn't going to reply), but my guess is there will be lots of interesting anecdotal stories.

--Mark

[fred rosenberger]

I'm a programmer. I write code. But everybody expects me to be able to a) configure their home network, b) install their new hardware, c) speed up their dial-up connection, or d) teach them how to use Word, Excel and a half-dozen other things i have no idea how to do.

In other words, i am supposed to know everything their is to know about every aspect of every kind of computer, OS, software and hardware package ever made.

I try and explain that my Sister is a doctor - a pediatric allergist. That doesn't mean you want her doing brain surgery on you, even though both are M.D.s, but this is usually met with a blank stare.

[Joe Richard]

I'm a developer and have had the same experiences as with people outside of the IT world as Mark and Fred.
I have the unfortunate experience of having a "Senior V.P." call the programming department a bunch of primadonnas.
This was during the good ol days of Y2K though.

With times being hard, are we still viewed as primadonnas?

[Tim Holloway]

Originally posted by Joe Richard:

With times being hard, are we still viewed as primadonnas?

We've always been viewed as primadonnas


You're lucky. The president of one local corportation reportedly said that his programmers were just "Shoe Salesmen".

Someday perhaps, people will develop enough sense for the complexities of IT that they'll understand the difference between a kid who can slap together ASPs and an experience professional who can develop and implement a scalable enterprise system, and that's it's as great a difference as there is between the mother who can bandage boo-boos and a surgeon.

Two things are going to have to change before that happens, though.

1. We're going to have to eliminate the phrase "All you have to do is..." from the vocabulary of people who want complex work done.

2. We're going to have to start implementing truly reliable systems and dig in our heels when the pressure goes on to make it arrive faster and cheaper. And while we're at it, develop some realism about how long it takes to get things done properly. Maybe if enough of us did that, we'd distinguish ourselves enough from those who claim much and deliver little that we'd carry some credibility.

I'm working on a system of moderate complexity right now. Ever day brings significant advances. But there's so much to do that there's just no way around it - it's going to take a lot of days, and it's going to pretty much unfold at its own pace, regardless of how many hours a day I spend working with it. From the outside, this project looks fairly simple. But so does a TV set. It's hard to explain how it could take so long.

But I do have a whiteboard overflowing with tasks, each of which will take 2-4 hours to complete.

[Arjun Shastry]

Few basic questions which I always face from many people:
1)Is IT/Computers fashion or really serious business?
2)If its really serious business,how come anybody can enter in IT?
3)If IT/Computer stop working,will it really make a difference to running of daily business?

[Gerald Davis]

There are three types of developer. Those who love VB and those who hate VB( VB programmers are stereo-typed as bad programmers ) and those who say that they are suppose to hate VB but do not because they have overcome the Object Oriented limitation of using that language but can take advantage of the RAD nature of VB ( The wise developer sees beyond OO programming).
There are also two types of geek visual and audio. The audio geek is good at maths and music and programming mathematical style they make good accountants. The visual geek is good at visualising things. This is useful for UML diagrams, GUI and Object Oriented technology they can make good car mechanics because they can visualise the internal workings of the car.

Many of those geeks are bad spellers like Einstein and are dyslexic. I am a bad speller also. It is a pity nobody told me that this was a strength not a weakness, for I doubt that Einstein would have discovered the theory of relativity if he had the communication and grammar skills of Shakespeare.

[Gerald Davis]

Originally posted by fred rosenberger:
I'm a programmer. I write code. But everybody expects me to be able to a) configure their home network, b) install their new hardware, c) speed up their dial-up connection, or d) teach them how to use Word, Excel and a half-dozen other things i have no idea how to do.

In other words, i am supposed to know everything their is to know about every aspect of every kind of computer, OS, software and hardware package ever made.

I try and explain that my Sister is a doctor - a pediatric allergist. That doesn't mean you want her doing brain surgery on you, even though both are M.D.s, but this is usually met with a blank stare.

Can you dig it Fred I feel that way too just because I declare myself the dogs nuts at programming people think that I have the ability to hack the windows registry to extend a 30 day limitation on Photoshop or fiddle with the binaries of a window executable program to do all kinds of things.

[Helen Thomas]

Circulating the net. Cringeworthy.

Most developers are morons, and the rest are assholes. I have at various times counted myself in both groups, so I can say this with the utmost confidence.

Assholes

Assholes read specs with a fine-toothed comb, looking for loopholes, oversights, or simple typos. Then they write code that is meticulously spec-compliant, but useless. If someone yells at them for writing useless software, they smugly point to the sentence in the spec that clearly spells out how their horribly broken software is technically correct, and then they crow about it on their blogs.

There is a faction of assholes that write test cases. These people are good to have around while writing a spec, because they can occasionally be managed into channeling their infinite time and energy into finding loopholes before the spec is final. Unfortunately, managing assholes is even harder and more time-consuming than it sounds. This is why writing good specs takes so long: most of the time is frittered away on asshole management.
Morons

Morons, on the other hand, don�t read specs until someone yells at them. Instead, they take a few examples that they find �in the wild� and write code that seems to work based on their limited sample. Soon after they ship, they inevitably get yelled at because their product is nowhere near conforming to the part of the spec that someone else happens to be using. Someone points them to the sentence in the spec that clearly spells out how horribly broken their software is, and they fix it.

Besides the run-of-the-mill morons, there are two factions of morons that are worth special mention. The first work from examples, and ship code, and get yelled at, just like all the other morons. But then when they finally bother to read the spec, they magically turn into assholes and argue that the spec is ambiguous, or misleading in some way, or ignoreable because nobody else implements it, or simply wrong. These people are called sociopaths. They will never write conformant code regardless of how good the spec is, so they can safely be ignored.

The second faction of morons work from examples, ship code, and get yelled at. But when they get around to reading the spec, they magically turn into advocates and write up tutorials on what they learned from their mistakes. These people are called experts. Virtually every useful tutorial in the world was written by a moron-turned-expert.
Angels

Some people would argue that not all developers are morons or assholes, but they are mistaken. For example, some people posit the existence of what I will call the �angel� developer. �Angels� read specs closely, write code, and then thoroughly test it against the accompanying test suite before shipping their product. Angels do not actually exist, but they are a useful fiction to make spec writers to feel better about themselves.

Why specs matter

If your spec isn�t good enough, morons have no chance of ever getting things right. For everyone who complains that their software is broken, there will be two assholes who claim that it�s not. The spec, whose primary purpose is to arbitrate disputes between morons and assholes, will fail to resolve anything, and the arguments will smolder for years.

If your spec is good enough, morons have a fighting chance of getting things right the second time around, without being besieged by assholes. Meanwhile, the assholes who have nothing better to do than look for loopholes won�t find any, and they�ll eventually get bored and wander off in search of someone else to harass.

[Gerald Davis]

While we are at it, do you think that there are many types of roadsweeper.

[Derek Grey]

I once attended a farewell of a psychology professor at the dept. chair's house. Needless to say almost 90% of the crowd was filled with professors from that dept and their spouses.

One psych. professor comes to me and asks "So what is it that you computer programmers do apart from playing computer games?". I almost said "run the world in our spare time...so what do y'all do apart from messing other people's head?"

From that day on I told myself not to bother about what other people think and kept programming for my own satisfaction...been successful so far

[Warren Dew]

B Hayes:

Overall, I find that these days (as opposed to 15+ years ago) IT employees have generally lost the stigma of being "nerds" or "geeks".

Stigma?

I'm actually appalled at how many nongeeks are trying to turn into programmers these days. Only geeks should be allowed to touch a compiler.

[Mike Gershman]

I have found that non-IT senior executives fall into three categories:
Some of them just want us to provide service that doesn't cost too much and doesn't go down.
Some of them treat us as partners who can give the organization a competitive edge.
And some of them think they can master any field, including IT, by reading a few articles, asking a lot of questions, and talking to vendors. Those are the dangerous ones.

As for the friends and relatives who want a little free help, it's easier to learn a little Wintel SA stuff and be a local hero than to explain the you're a Sun Java architect and never touch a PC. MD's, CPA's, lawyers, and cops have the same problem. Loosen up.

[Gerald Davis]

Geek, what is the distinction between a geek and non geek. My sister is a crass between a Geek and an IT Girl. For no geek can stay on the internet as long as she, she bitches every time I try to take the connection away from her.
She love Japanese cartoons like Card-Captors and yugiio, she does not laugh at things that are not funny like bumping on the street into people and tom and jerry like most woman do but finds bo-selector and jackass funny. At the moment she is making a stink about me using this internet at the moment so I will say goodbye.

[Sania Marsh]

Originally posted by Warren Dew:
B Hayes:

I'm actually appalled at how many nongeeks are trying to turn into programmers these days. Only geeks should be allowed to touch a compiler.

So what is the definition of 'geek'?

Just trying to find out if I'm allowed to touch compiler or not

[Gerald Davis]

A geek is someone with Asperger syndrome, like me. I get it from my oversized interbreeding Christian family

[Hussein Baghdadi]

Well, this a joke about IT guys..
CHILD: Dad, where did I come from?
DAD: Okay, we had to have this conversation some day!..
Listen...
Dad and mom met in a chat room on the net. I set up a meeting with your mom and we landed in the bathroom at the Cyber Caf�. Then, mom did some
downloads from dads memory stick and when dad was ready to upload, we
discovered that there was no firewall. Seeing that it was a bit too late to cancel, I just carried on doing the upload. Nine months later, the damn
virus appeared!.
CHILD: Huh?

[Gerald Davis]

Originally posted by John Todd:
Well, this a joke about IT guys..
CHILD: Dad, where did I come from?
DAD: Okay, we had to have this conversation some day!..
Listen...
Dad and mom met in a chat room on the net. I set up a meeting with your mom and we landed in the bathroom at the Cyber Caf�. Then, mom did some
downloads from dads memory stick and when dad was ready to upload, we
discovered that there was no firewall. Seeing that it was a bit too late to cancel, I just carried on doing the upload. Nine months later, the damn
virus appeared!.
CHILD: Huh?

Is it me, have I completely lost the plot or is he talking complete jibberish.

[Jeroen Wenting]

Movies like Wargames have done a lot of damage to the image of IT people and it's not getting better.

Outside IT we're often seen as weird unhealthy people who are extremely narrowminded and always out to destroy the world either through malice or ignorance as to the real issues.
That's of course the typical Hollywood image of the mad professor which is how IT people too are portrayed.
Just look at the movie The Net for a more recent example.
The heroine is an extreme loner who sits behind multiple computer screens all day long in a messed up room, her only contact with real people being the pizza delivery boy and the UPS man. Everyone else she only meets via chatrooms and email.
Only when someone steals her identity and she's forced to flee does she enter the real world for which she's completely unprepared.
The Bad Guys are programmers who want to take over the world through their computers and are out to destroy her through their devious control of the world financial and law enforcement institutions.

That's the images people outside have of IT people, those who know us personally have an only slightly more positive image and think we're wizards who know everything about machinery (not just computers, but things as incomprehensible as VCRs we're supposed to grasp).

[Sania Marsh]

Originally posted by Gerald Davis:


Is it me, have I completely lost the plot or is he talking complete jibberish.

Well, the idea is pretty clear, if you don't go down to details.. , but I didn't like this joke.