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Hi,

I am working as a Web Developer(Java,JSP) now. I am thinking to move into the testing/QA field . There are two mainly 2 reasons for that. One is I don't like programming and second is am not good at programming.
But I have only a little knowledge in testing. In my workplace there is no proper way of testing.

What I would like to know is, if I move into a junior testing role, would I be need to do programming ?

I know if I take a junior role , the salary will be much less that what I earn now . But will it be valued after one year to get a better salary in testing/QA field ?
I am very much appreciate to get your suggestions and opinions in this subject.

Thanks,
Joe.
 
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Wow!

Very interesting. If you don't like to do programming you shouldn't. And let me tell you, the same applies to any job. After 2 years from now you shouldn't say that you will move out of testing because you don't want to test. So my sincere advise would be to do the job you love or to love the job you do.

OK, now to answer your question I would say "it depends." It depends on what you will be testing but I'm sure that at one point you have to program even if you are into QA because all these testing tools that I know like QTP, Test Partner etc, they all use VBScript (pls correct if I am wrong). But what you won't be doing is "developing."

To give you a simple irrelevant example, let's say a developer writes a program to add the two numbers, he will develop that program. But you as a tester will test that program. But a better way to do this type of testing is to automate it. Don't tell me that you are going to enter numbers from 1 to 10000000000000000000.

Testing in itself is a very good field but I don't know why people often see it as an inferior thing. They are the ones who save us (the devs) from embarrassing bugs from the customers (if they do a good job). And moreover the industry is also looking at testing as an important phase of the SDLC.

And one more thing, I bet you that you will become a better tester than someone else simply because you are in development right now (whether you are good or mediocre). And you can surely earn more if you become a QA manager, can't you?

But all of this can only be done if you love what you do.

I am sure my other ranchers will give you more suggestions and correct me wherever I have gone wrong

-- Srikanth
[ February 15, 2007: Message edited by: Srikanth Raghavan ]
 
Joe Jose
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Thanks Sreekanth for your reply.

At some point your are right. I loved programming in the beginning. But after years passed, my priority changed and I am struggling to update my knowledge and I find it difficult to cope.
So I thought its better to try the next step. And also I thought to know the business well, this is the best field.

Welcome more opinions.

Thanks
Joe.
[ February 15, 2007: Message edited by: Joe Jose ]
 
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But I have only a little knowledge in testing. In my workplace there is no proper way of testing.



You have little knowledge of testing but you are sure that your workplace does not test software well ? And if you dont know what testing is about how sure are you that you will like testing ? Testing can often be frustrating. You have to come up with many scenarios and it can be very redundant. You might have to learn about tools like rational robo and quick test professional. Are you sure you can handle it if some one comes up to you and says "These 50 test cases have to be executed by today and their results have to be documented.". That would be the equivalent of some one saying "Add another panel to the front end and populate the values from table X into the screen. You have one day" Just a rough analogy
 
Joe Jose
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Originally posted by John Meyers:
[QB]


And if you dont know what testing is about how sure are you that you will like testing ?



I didn't say that I like testing. But since I am struggling with programming, I just think about considering a move.

Testing can often be frustrating. You have to come up with many scenarios and it can be very redundant. You might have to learn about tools like rational robo and quick test professional. Are you sure you can handle it if some one comes up to you and says "These 50 test cases have to be executed by today and their results have to be documented.". That would be the equivalent of some one saying "Add another panel to the front end and populate the values from table X into the screen. You have one day" Just a rough analogy




Well, might be true. Its not easy. But to get more business knowledge, is this a good move ?
Well, I am looking for a QA. So for the beginning, I need to move to testing as a first step, am I right ?

John,thank you for the reply. That helped me to think a lot.
Please give me more possibilities, and help me to take a decision.

Thanks,
Joe.

 
Deepak Bala
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How about being a business analyst ? That way you dont have to program. You do have to know what each technology is and you have to know quite a lot about the business. You interact with clients and talk about a little bit of architecture here and there. This job would be 70% business and 30% technical, if you ignore other skills like communication etc etc from the over all % (I am not suggesting that soft skills are not important. They are extremely important and I am making the assumption that some one with this title must have that skill).

If you want something more technical how about being a DBA ? If you are good with SQL, procedures, cursors, indexes, locks etc that could be your deal.

What you must look for is to somehow make use of the experiences you have had so far and help them move you forward. You could also become a testing team lead after may be two years into testing (just a speculation). It is also important that you like what you do.

I had a real hard time trying to find out what I liked to do in the beginning, thanks to the environment and pressure that I was under in my initial stages. After exploring a bit ( 3 to 4 months ) I settled for programming and design. If you are confused about what to do, take the confusion and throw it in the back seat. When I was too concerned about what I liked, I was not able to find it. After some exploring, what I liked eventually came to me, perhaps because I was not consciously looking for it.
 
Joe Jose
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Originally posted by John Meyers:
How about being a business analyst ? That way you dont have to program. You do have to know what each technology is and you have to know quite a lot about the business. You interact with clients and talk about a little bit of architecture here and there. This job would be 70% business and 30% technical, if you ignore other skills like communication etc etc from the over all % (I am not suggesting that soft skills are not important. They are extremely important and I am making the assumption that some one with this title must have that skill).

If you want something more technical how about being a DBA ? If you are good with SQL, procedures, cursors, indexes, locks etc that could be your deal.

What you must look for is to somehow make use of the experiences you have had so far and help them move you forward. You could also become a testing team lead after may be two years into testing (just a speculation). It is also important that you like what you do.

I had a real hard time trying to find out what I liked to do in the beginning, thanks to the environment and pressure that I was under in my initial stages. After exploring a bit ( 3 to 4 months ) I settled for programming and design. If you are confused about what to do, take the confusion and throw it in the back seat. When I was too concerned about what I liked, I was not able to find it. After some exploring, what I liked eventually came to me, perhaps because I was not consciously looking for it.



hmm business analyst is not a bad idea. But need experience in that. People who get a chance to work in real pressured environment are really lucky. I haven't got a chance to work on that. I am not getting much exposure , may be that also a reason for me to think about a change. At the moment am I working remotely , means my team mates are in a different location. I myself choose this option for my convenience. But now am fed up. No one is there for me to talk or clear a doubt.Since this is my first job , I am totally unaware (at first) how to approach the business and business knowledge. But now I wake up from passive mode to active mode, but then there is no chance to improve. So am seeking a different location and possibilities.
If I would get more chance to improve my programming skills, I might have an interest on it.

Before taking some decision on my own , I would like to get some opinions from people who got some real exposure in the field.

Thank you very much John.

I am not ending, more comments appreciated.

Thanks,
Joe.
 
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I currently work as a QA manager for an automation team. I value and hire people that can understand and write tests using programming concepts. We use Silktest which has a language that is roughly based upon C. I can't speak about other QA tools, but in Silktest we have common includes which are functions that we can all share. We have coding standards, and we try to create readable test scripts. We have weekly code review meetings to ensure we are creating consistent scripts. So yes, in my team you would have to "program", but it's not as detailed as in our programming team.

Our QA people need to really understand our business also. To me the scenario creation is a fun time because I get to use my business skills, and then figure out how to invoke the scenarios with the QA tools I know.

We also have manual QA testers. If you join a manual test team you will not program. This team runs through a checklist of items that could not be automated for every release. They also must be strong in business, but not strong in technology.

If you go for QA you want to join a company that values QA. If the company values QA you will be paid fairly well if you do automated QA. Not as well for manual QA. If they don't value QA then the team will have no influence and you don't want to work there anyway. So make sure to ask them how much say QA gets in releases, how involved QA is in each production release, and who QA reports to in the company.
 
Joe Jose
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Originally posted by Michele Martone:
I currently work as a QA manager for an automation team. I value and hire people that can understand and write tests using programming concepts. We use Silktest which has a language that is roughly based upon C. I can't speak about other QA tools, but in Silktest we have common includes which are functions that we can all share. We have coding standards, and we try to create readable test scripts. We have weekly code review meetings to ensure we are creating consistent scripts. So yes, in my team you would have to "program", but it's not as detailed as in our programming team.

Our QA people need to really understand our business also. To me the scenario creation is a fun time because I get to use my business skills, and then figure out how to invoke the scenarios with the QA tools I know.

We also have manual QA testers. If you join a manual test team you will not program. This team runs through a checklist of items that could not be automated for every release. They also must be strong in business, but not strong in technology.

If you go for QA you want to join a company that values QA. If the company values QA you will be paid fairly well if you do automated QA. Not as well for manual QA. If they don't value QA then the team will have no influence and you don't want to work there anyway. So make sure to ask them how much say QA gets in releases, how involved QA is in each production release, and who QA reports to in the company.




Thank you very much Michele. I need to find out how can I find an opportunity to begin . Everyone needs experienced persons or they want only newly passed graduated. I won't be included in either of these.
 
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Hi Joe,

A former co-worker of mine, decided as well that programming was not for her, and she made an internal move to our QA department. She's been there a year, and is now a co-lead in managing offshore testing teams for some projects. They were very excited to have her join their team because she had previous programming/technical experience. Especially programming because all of us developers must test their work at some point. (not that we all DO, which drives me crazy!) So, you also have testing experience.

So, don't get discouraged, I believe you can transition to QA easily, but it also depends on what level of QA position you are looking for. You may still need to start as a fresher from the QA side. But you may move up fairly quickly if you prove you can do your job well.

Good Luck!
 
Joe Jose
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Thank you very much Lulu.

Yes, I am also thinking to start as a fresher in the qa field. Since my company is not a software company there is no testing/qa department . But there is a qa department in out company, but thats in a different location.

I was disappointed and depressed . But I get some energy by seeing all of your replies.

I have already applied one or two junior test roles. If they call me for an interview , as a fresher, what are all the parts do I need to learn mainly ?
Could anyone give me an idea how automated tools work ? And how to do manual testing ?

Many Thanks,
Joe.
 
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Another option is to consider a more product specific career in IT. For example becoming a specialist in an Application Server. These do not change as often as other Java frameworks and mostly you will be doing configuration work than programming.
 
Joe Jose
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Originally posted by Ali Hussain:
Another option is to consider a more product specific career in IT. For example becoming a specialist in an Application Server. These do not change as often as other Java frameworks and mostly you will be doing configuration work than programming.




Thanks Ali. But how to become a specialist in App server ? May be I need to consider some certification for that, right ?
 
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