9 1 1

[Shura Balaganov]

The more I think about it... Sorry folks to bother you...
Anyhow, issues.
1. Why on September 13, 2002 did we have DefCon 2? What could be almost as dangerous as a pre-nuclear war condition (that might cause DefCon 1)? Why did we have it first time since 9/11 of last year?
2. Association from chess. When one opponent has a better position and a clean plan ahead, there's not really much other opponent can do, besides mutit' vodu ("make water muddy" == try to confuse the opponent). Changed status-quo might confuse opponent to a point where he'll start making mistakes or choose moves that are beneficial to you. You run a chance to loose fast, but situation was shaky anyway. I've used this tactics (often successfully) alot...explanation follows...
So, it is obvious to me, that either Bush, or some other powerful group knew about 9 11 preparations. I have some links below for interested folks... The more I think about it, the less likely it seems that Bush was capable (or even needed) cataclysm like that. After all, he had "a better position". But since operation was so complex, it is very likely that it was either planned, or "missed" by high ranked oficials. Now, getting back to issues 1 and 2, someone obviously makes water muddy here...
This mysterious revolutionary "Bin Laden", that tricked military and intelligence all over the world, if he is still alive, probably hiding under close supervision of DIA... :roll: what's a code-name for al-Jazera network again?
Apparently, world doesn't want US to attack Iraq. The more I think about it, the more I start believeing that Bush doesn't want it either, he is just forced to play the card (issue 2?). If Bin Laden is so guilty, why not to present evidence to the world? Because it will spook Al Quaeda? Why, they will run hiding? :roll: There is NO EVIDENCE. Without it, Europe obviously doesn't want a war in its backyard. Prove me wrong.
http://www.eirna.com/html/headse38.htm
Russian link: http://zavtra.ru/cgi//veil//data/zavtra/02/452/31.html
Shura

[Rufus BugleWeed]

Could DEFCON 2 just be everybody needs to be on their guard really serious? I don't think GWB going to launch a nuclear strike against men with pointy beards driving a truck bomb.
As far as world being against US hitting Iraq. I hear that Putin might change his mind if we grease his palm. So instead of taxpayer like you facing 80 Billion, it's 100 Billion. Just the price of doing your friends a favor.

[Shura Balaganov]

Originally posted by Rufus Bugleweed:
As far as world being against US hitting Iraq. I hear that Putin might change his mind if we grease his palm. So instead of taxpayer like you facing 80 Billion, it's 100 Billion. Just the price of doing your friends a favor.

He's neither my friend nor yours. Here's a speech of a possible democratic candidate on 9/11/2002 for ya... I am not against kicking butt, it's just all this is BS. I WANT EVIDENCE, and unless some old bush produces any, noone in the world will believe it. These boys studies Soviet Union too much, they now use same old commy tricks...
these army boys are all good, haha. :roll: tell this to second graders. so much sh1t hits the fan up there you don't want to know. better off ignoring it and keep plugging on, just like Jason likes it... me a little tired and cranky, pardon
http://larouchein2004.net/pages/speeches/2002/020911webcast.htm
[edit]
I guess might not be related, but... RAND Corporation, ever heard of? Here's a list of their clients: http://www.rand.org/about/majorspons.html Check out what they do too...Very interesting case, a "non-profit-corporation" :roll:
Love this country, so easy to find what you are looking for
[/edit]
Shura
[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]

[Rufus BugleWeed]

We have proof.
He sent the weapons inspectors packing.

[Shura Balaganov]

Proof of what? That he develops weapons? So do India, Pakistan, China, North Korea. Why don't we attack them? what the flunk is wrong with you people, stop watching f@#%ing CNN, save your brains for meaningful things! Did you read LaRouche, Jr. article, what d'ya say?
I hate putting dent into people's belief systems...I want to see a SINGLE PROOF, that Bin Laden, Al Quaeda, or whatever the heck their name is, was directly involved into 9 1 1. A SINGLE PROOF. Please. Don't give me "how to fly Boeing" manuals. Nor color pictures of 20-some arabs that majically appeared on 9/12, as if pulled from a dusty file. A real proof. No less, no more. And then go bomb them, with my complete support. I've had enough of this BS in USSR. Come on people, help me out here...
Shura
[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]

[Shura Balaganov]

Do I want my Java code to power their ballistic missiles? :roll: Abort...abort...abort...
Just ran into another interesting fact I didn't know...Apparently, Israel has 3 nuclear submarines and 100 nuclear warheads! That's f@$%ing insane!
OK, ok, calm down. I think I am onto something...So, "terrorists" attack US... we, as wounded beast retaliate, hammering Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudis...Who's the winner? Who's that lucky state that will be a direct beneficial of mass massacre in Middle East?
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Israel
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so who then attacked us?...or maybe I've been drinking :roll:
Shura
[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]

[Anonymous]

Another way to look at this is:
Where are the 9.11 victims from?
I heard on 9/11, all the israli employees were coincidently absent from the twin tower. There ought to be some explaination to this.

[Michael Ernest]

I heard the airplanes crashed into the towers the very same instant some Muslim fanatics were entering them. And yet no one has raised this question before now. Spooky

[Anonymous]

So according to you, exctly what purpose did Israel achive by doing this?Please say it clearly ,don't spread rumor,This forum is not Karachi/Lahore

[Jason Menard]

Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
I want to see a SINGLE PROOF, that Bin Laden, Al Quaeda, or whatever the heck their name is, was directly involved into 9 1 1. A SINGLE PROOF.

Are their own words enough for you? Of course I suppose insane conspiracy theories are easier to believe if you are so predisposed. I'm sure you can come up with some other logical reason Al-Qaeda had intimate knowledge of the events, and intimate knowledge of the hijackers. I suppose you can come up with some other reason for known Al Qaeda operatives telling a reporter how they (al-Qaeda) planned the operation.
While I'm sure you would like to see whatever classified evidence our intelligence agencies may have in order that you may feel satisfied, somehow I don't think you're going to be allowed to see this. However the words of al-Qaeda themselves should be enough for you, although I'm suppose you might dismiss these reports as some great conspiracy as well. I guess it's more convenient to believe in fairy tales sometimes though.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/09/12/alqaeda.911.claim/index.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2256993.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2239889.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/2247495.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/2248894.stm
[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]

[Jason Menard]

Originally posted by <Seeking Truth>:
I heard on 9/11, all the israli employees were coincidently absent from the twin tower. There ought to be some explaination to this.

Yes, the explanation is that this was an unfounded and false rumor. Some people will believe anything.

[Axel Janssen]

I've heard at night, when his buddies sleep, Bin Laden reads the Talmut under his blanket with a 7 armed candlestick .
[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by <Seeking Truth>:
Another way to look at this is:
Where are the 9.11 victims from?
I heard on 9/11, all the israli employees were coincidently absent from the twin tower. There ought to be some explaination to this.

If you were really seeking the truth then you would have had no trouble finding that many Israelis died in the attack.

[Thomas Paul]

By the way, I heard a rumor that you couldn't find a cab downtown before the attack because all the Russians and Arab cab drivers were warned by Al Queda before the attack.
[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]

[Thomas Paul]

Shura, what exactly do you want as proof? We have videotapes of Osama bin Laden and his associates planning the attack. We have Al Queda's Chief logistical planner, Ramzi Binalshibh, admitting that he was the chief planner for the attack. So what exactly is the "proof" that you require? Or is proof irrelevant and all you want is to denounce America?

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

If you were really seeking the truth then you would have had no trouble finding that many Israelis died in the attack.

Yes, I found one.
http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/
But I remember that, on 9/11/01, CNN reported several Israelis nationals were arrested for mysterious behavior - they were caught taking pictures and laughing in a building near the twin tower.

[Thomas Paul]

You remember incorrectly. Or you are making this up. But either way it isn't true.
From now on how about providing links to support your "memories"?
[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by <Seeking Truth>:


Yes, I found one.
http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/

Interesting. Not a single Arab nation in the list of fatalities. What do you make of that?

[Axel Janssen]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Interesting. Not a single Arab nation in the list of fatalities. What do you make of that?

There are 3 nations with a muslim mayority in the list:
Lebanon, Indonesia and Uzbekistan.
[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by Axel Janssen:

There are 3 nations with a muslim mayority in the list:
Lebanon, Indonesia and Uzbekistan.
[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]

I didn't mention anything about Islam. I said there were no Arab countries on the list. Lebanon is an exception but Lebanon has a large Christian population. That might explain it. But no Saudis... no Egyptians... no Pakistanis... no Yemenis. In fact, go through the list of where the terrorists were from and you won't find a single person from their countries. Very curious, don't you think? I wonder if they were warned to stay home that day. What do you think "Truth Seeker"?

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
You remember incorrectly. Or you are making this up. But either way it isn't true.
From now on how about providing links to support your "memories"?
[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]

Actually, I am pretty about this. If anyone can provide the links to CNN headline news transcript of 9/11/01, then we are going to find out.

[John Dale]

At www.snopes.com, there is currently a list of 9/11 rumors rated true, false, etc., with links to further information. The link is titled "rumors of war" and is near the bottom of the page. Both the 4000 Israelis and taxicab rumors are there, rated false.
[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: John Dale ]

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by <Seeking Truth>:
Actually, I am pretty about this.

You're going to have send a picture before I can agree or disagree with you on that.

[John Dale]

The Snopes link on the 4000 Israelis rumor points to a Slate article http://slate.msn.com/?id=116813 which mentions the five Israelies on a roof rumor, which they were unable to verify.

[Jason Menard]

I heard the same rumor about people laughing and taking pictures, only I heard they were Arabs. Can't remember the country, doesn't matter.
The undisputed facts are "Truth Seeker" (yeah, right) that proof of al-Qaeda's responsibility for the murders are well known by this time. There is by now much evidence which has shown this, they have stated as much, and now we have one of the admitted masterminds behind the operation in custody, only a few short days after he dared the West to try and find him.
I'm sorry these facts destroy how you and others like you wish things had happened, but that's just the way it is.
While it is strictly an opinion piece, you might find this article, written by Saudi journalist Rasheed Abou-Alsamh for ArabNews, of interest.

First, we must stop denying that any of the hijackers were Saudis or even Arab. We must also stop saying that the Sept. 11 attacks were a CIA-Zionist plot to make the Arabs and Islam look bad. This is utter nonsense! We must be mature and responsible enough to admit that these sick minds that hatched and perpetrated these dastardly attacks were, sadly, a product of a twisted viewpoint of our society and religion. We must ask what went wrong and how we can change our society and education system so that this won�t ever happen again. Blaming others for our shortcomings as a society won�t get us anywhere, and will only serve to alienate us further from the rest of the world.
Second, we must stop the hatred being taught to our children in schools. Why are they being taught to hate non-Muslims? Is this a reasonable way to bring up future citizens of the world?

Maybe some of the above applies to you as well, "Truth Seeker"?

[Mapraputa Is]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
You're going to have send a picture before I can agree or disagree with you on that.

[Jason Menard]

I don't think most of us are surprised by "seeking Truth" and his ilk these days. But less you think his is an isolated view, here is a recent opinion poll of Egyptians conducted by an Egyptian news paper.

QUESTION 1: How would you describe your feelings when you saw the destruction of New York's twin towers?
They deserved it: 52%
Sympathy for the victims: 35%
Afraid of the future: 24%
Admiration for the culprits: 28%
Anger at the culprits: 10%
QUESTION 2: Who do you think is responsible for the attacks?
Israeli intelligence/Mossad: 39%
We'll never know: 25%
Al-Qa'eda or other Islamic militants: 19%
Others: 19%
QUESTION 3: How do you view the American war on terror?
A means of asserting the US's global dominance: 68%
A war against Arabs and Muslims: 51%
A justified response to the attacks: 15%
QUESTION 4: How do you view the results of the American war on terror?
Descent into chaos and increasing violence: 93%
The end of democracy and human rights: 48%
Success in eradicating terrorism and a more peaceful world: 1%
QUESTION 5: How do you view the future of radical Islamists?
Their popularity will increase: 51%
They are becoming weak and isolated: 31%
11 September was their death blow: 11%
QUESTION 6: What do you feel should have been Arab and Islamic governments' position on the US war on terror?
Oppose: 63%
Support: 10%
Remain neutral: 22%

[Andres Gonzalez]

How about this:

Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien said this, quote, "I do think the Western world is getting too rich in relation to the poor world. And we're looked at as being arrogant, self-satisfying, greedy, and with no limits. And September 11 is an occasion for me to realize it even more," unquote.
Prime minister says he's not blaming the USA for the 9/11 attacks, but others are outraged.

hmmm...

[Paul Stevens]

A leftest whining about someone other than government having money sure doesn't mean much.

[Lalooprasad Yadav]

Alabama - 4
Florida - 4
Georgia - 4
Texas - 4
Connecticut - 65
Massachusetts - 92
New Jersey - 695
New York - 1751
Pennsylvania - 30
Dont you see a pattern here? Dang if it ain't a confederate plot.

[Axel Janssen]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

I didn't mention anything about Islam. I said there were no Arab countries on the list.

But its an Islam thing, no arab thing. Al Quaeda understands itself as a pan-islamic organization. There are arabs which aren't muslims (there are arab christs or arab jews). There were turkish members in the Hamburg terror cell under Mohamed Atta. Are pashtunes arabs (I don't think so)?

[Thomas Paul]

Axel, I think you are taking this conversation way too seriously.

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
[QB]I heard the same rumor about people laughing and taking pictures, only I heard they were Arabs. Can't remember the country, doesn't matter.
[QB]

No matter where they come from, one thing is certain: they are not the murderer. The real murderer won't be so silly to do something like this in the neighborhood of twin tower on 9/11/01.

[Christophe Lee]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
By the way, I heard a rumor that you couldn't find a cab downtown before the attack because all the Russians and Arab cab drivers were warned by Al Queda before the attack.
[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]

What?! Are you implying all cab drivers in downtown NY are either Russian or Arabs? I know you're trying to make a point, but let's not stereotype races here.
I heard a rumor that many Muslim-Americans were shocked and saddened by the attack like all the rest of their fellow Americans. Actually, I can verify this rumor since I spent the following week with some.

[Mapraputa Is]

Originally posted by Lalooprasad Yadav:
Dont you see a pattern here? Dang if it ain't a confederate plot.

[Mapraputa Is]

Originally posted by Christophe Lee:

What?! Are you implying all cab drivers in downtown NY are either Russian or Arabs? I know you're trying to make a point, but let's not stereotype races here.

How come does this stereotype races? Tom didn't say that all Russians and Arabs are cab drivers in downtown NY!
It would be more accurate to say "let's not stereotype NY downtown's cab drivers".

[Anthony Goshaunee]

Originally posted by Andres Gonzalez:
How about this:
Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien said this, quote, "I do think the Western world is getting too rich in relation to the poor world. And we're looked at as being arrogant, self-satisfying, greedy, and with no limits. And September 11 is an occasion for me to realize it even more," unquote.
Prime minister says he's not blaming the USA for the 9/11 attacks, but others are outraged.
hmmm...

First of all, in my mind, there is no doubt that Osama bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attack. At the same time, I do not think it is so wrong to question who was behind this. There is evidence that suggests that there is something we are not considering. I just believe the evidence for is more than the evidence against, but I am willing to listen to both sides.
But commenting on that statement:
I do not see anything wrong with that statement at all. Anyone who is outraged with that statement has problems.
In no way does that statement blame the USA for the 9/11 attacks, but it does address a very important point. It addresses the main cause (not blame, but cause) of such an attack. Now we can argue for hours about whether or not America is to blame for the image it has in much of the world, but the fact is that much of the world does feel this way about America. So much in fact, that I think it is quite arrogant of America to dismiss this as, "The rest of the world is wrong, we are right, they can go to hell."
There is much more than that, and America needs to start looking at itself to see why so many people are unhappy (to say the least) with America.

[Younes Essouabni]

Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:

How come does this stereotype races? Tom didn't say that all Russians and Arabs are cab drivers in downtown NY!
It would be more accurate to say "let's not stereotype NY downtown's cab drivers".

Are you reversing Thomas Paul sentence?? He said all cab drivers in downtown NY are Arabs or Russians, and you're saying "not all the arabs and russian are taxi drivers in downtown NY"
Quite confusing.
Hapilly, there are others neighborhood for them

[Andres Gonzalez]

Originally posted by Anthony Goshaunee:

It addresses the main cause (not blame, but cause) of such an attack. ....but the fact is that much of the world does feel this way about America.
There is much more than that, and America needs to start looking at itself to see why so many people are unhappy (to say the least) with America.

I agree 100% with you Anthony. I am not american but I am from south america, and I think we've grown "covered" from american culture and american feelings, and the way their society behaves. Now that I am away from this continent (I'd say really away) I think I've only seen one point of view during my whole live and never realized that there are a lot of people out there that hate america so much. They have their reasons and I think it is impossible to modify their point of view about america. I remember watching TV news and they showed a news paper conmemorating the attacks with a headline : "september 11th, a punishment from god"... that was shocking..
hhmmmm

[Paul Stevens]

It addresses the main cause (not blame, but cause) of such an attack.

Cause? I don't think so. The cause is a bunch of extremists warped view of the world. Much like Charles Manson they are evil. There is no justifiable cause or reason. There are many people in the world that don't like what someone or some country does but do not kill people. To try to find cause or reason is giving them legitimacy. They have none. They are killers pure and simple.
I read an article today that says a woman in Nigeria will be stoned to death for having a baby outside of marriage. If you want to look for causes, look no further than rules like this.