Its Oil !!!

[Muhammad Asif]

JAMES TOWN, Rhode Island - The Russians got into their Vietnam right after we got out of ours? Isn't that strange?
We supported Bin Laden and the Taleban for years, and viewed them as freedom fighters against the Russians? Isn't that strange?
As late as 1998 the US was paying the salary of every single Taleban official in Afghanistan? Isn't that strange?
There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea area than in Saudi Arabia, but you need a pipeline through Afghanistan to get the oil out. Isn't that strange?
UNOCAL, a giant American Oil conglomerate, wanted to build a 1-000-mile long pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the Arabian Sea. Isn't that strange?
UNOCAL spent $10 billion on geological surveys for pipeline construction, and very nicely courted the Taleban for their support in allowing the construction to begin. Isn't that strange?
All of the leading Taleban officials were in Texas negotiating with UNOCAL in 1998. Isn't that strange?
1998-1999 - The Taleban changed its mind and threw UNOCAL out of the country and awarded the pipeline project to a company from Argentina. Isn't that strange?
John Maresca, vice president of UNOCAL, testified before Congress and said no pipeline until the Taleban was gone and a more friendly government was established. Isn't that strange?
1999-2000 - The Taleban became the most evil people in the world. Isn't that strange?
Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October. Isn't that strange?
Sept. 11, 2001 - WTC disaster.
Bush goes to war against Afghanistan even though none of the hijackers came from Afghanistan. Isn't that strange?
Bush blamed Bin Laden but has never offered any proof saying it's a "secret." Isn't that strange?
Taleban offered to negotiate to turn over Bin Laden if we showed them some proof. We refused; we bombed. Isn't that strange?
Bush said: "This is not about nation building. It's about getting the terrorists." Isn't that strange?
We have a new government in Afghanistan. Isn't that strange?
The leader of that government formerly worked for UNOCAL. Isn't that strange?
Bush appoints a special envoy to represent the US to deal with that new government, who formerly was the "chief consultant to UNOCAL." Isn't that strange?
The Bush family acquired their wealth through oil? Isn't that strange?
Bush's secretary of interior was the president of an oil company before going to Washington. Isn't that strange?
George Bush Sr. now works with the "Carlysle Group" specializing in huge oil investments round the world. Isn't that strange?
Condoleezza Rice worked for Chevron before going to Washington. Isn't that strange?
Chevron named one of its newest "supertankers" after Condoleezza. Isn't that strange?
Dick Cheney worked for the giant oil conglomerate Haliburton before becoming vice president. Isn't that strange?
Haliburton gave Cheney $34 million as a farewell gift when he left the company. Isn't that strange?
Halliburton is in the pipeline construction business. Isn't that strange?
There is $6 trillion worth of oil in the Caspian Sea area. Isn't that strange?
The US government quietly announced on Jan 31, 2002 that we will support the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline. Isn't that strange?
President Musharraf (Pakistan), and interim leader Karzai, (Afghanistan - UNOCAL) announces agreement to build proposed gas pipeline from central Asia to Pakistan via Afghanistan. (Irish Times 02/10/02) Isn't that strange?
It's the Oil, Stupid!

[Paul Stevens]

Next time just post the damn link. Don't cut and paste the whole story.
Here is a link.
Goes to show just because someone writes something doesn't make it so.

[Axel Janssen]

Originally posted by Asif Abbasi:

Chevron named one of its newest "supertankers" after Condoleezza. Isn't that strange?

If I would buy an female hamster I would call her Condoleezza, too.
What's your problem
Its a nice name and Condoleezza Rice played a very constructive role during german reunification.
[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Axel Janssen:

Its a nice name
[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]

I heard a rumor that Condoleezza was supposed to be Condolcezza, which is an Italian term used in Opera and music in general. Mrs. Rice father used to be an opera addict, unlike the public officer that registered her ...
lol

[Axel Janssen]

In italian the spelling is very different. In english Condoleezza is much better than Condolceza. I would say they did right.
Names should be adapted in another language. For years there was a heated debate between the comunist and the socialdemocrat fractions of my fathers family if the name change of my us-emigrated grand-uncle from Janßen to Jansen was lack of personal pride or acceptable adoption to circumstances.
Another great debate was about if its cia-propaganda or simply true that the asian part of the sovjet union is bigger than the european part.
[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Axel Janssen:

Names should be adapted in another language.

Ciao Alfio Giansoni.

[Thomas Paul]

Asif, instead of posting this same garabge over and over again, why not tell us what you are trying to say? Are you claiming the George Bush blew up the WTC so that he could build a pipeline? Do you really think that the President of the USA would risk being found out, arrested, tried, and executed so that he can be a bit richer than he already is? And how exactly did he get those planes to crash into the WTC? Remote control? And how is he mananging to keep this conspiracy quiet? There must be hundreds if not thousands of people involved in a conspiracy so vast?
This reminds me of the quotes that the right-wing anti-Clinton nuts used to publish about all the people who had some kind of relationship with Clinton who "mysteriously" showed up dead.

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Asif, instead of posting this same garabge over and over again, why not tell us what you are trying to say?

I think he is trying to say that US attack on Afghanistan was planned well before 9 11 and it is not directly related to US war on terrorism.
He is trying to say -I think- that the attack to Afghanistan was related to US strategic interests.

[Paul Stevens]

He isn't saying anything. That was a cut and paste job. That was my point. DONT CUT AND PASTE ARTICLES.

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
He isn't saying anything.

OK.
<Substitute_Global> "he" <with> "the author of the article".

[Jason Menard]

Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:
I think he is trying to say that US attack on Afghanistan was planned well before 9 11 and it is not directly related to US war on terrorism.
He is trying to say -I think- that the attack to Afghanistan was related to US strategic interests.

This is yet another conspiracy. But let's assume for a minute that it was true. Do you think most Afghanis are all that upset at the way things turned out?
But it isn't true and there are some things that indicate this. For one thing, we really don't have all that many troops there. We are concentrating our efforts on rooting out al-Qaeda and Taliban as opposed to generally pacifying the country.
In addition we've sought out world assistance for peacekeeping and rebuilding. As always, the international community is falling up short in these regards as Europe and others refuse to commit enough forces to the ISAF which is absolutely necessary in order to maintain peace and order in the country at this stage. In addition much of the promised money hasn't shown up and now countries are balking at earlier pledges to fix the infrastructure such as roads, electricity and water.
If our interests were really oil, we wouldn't have requested international assistance to the extent that it was promised (and as always undelivered) simply because we wouldn't want Europe and others to have a piece of the pie. Additionally, we would be focusing our efforts on brining law and order to the country, not leaving it to the ISAF. But as I said, instead we are continuing to root out terrorists.
And finally, if we were interested in a long term oil project above all else, why is Karzai worried that we will pull out our forces? Instead he is requesting we commit more forces. Recognizing the ineffectiveness of ISAF (what would you expect), he is pleading for the US to act as a security force in the country. We never wanted to do this since Europe and others were supposed to handle this task, and it is obvious that we don't want to commit a much larger force to the country when we have plans for those additional troops elsewhere (and this is why Karzai objects to us going into Iraq btw).
If the goal all along were oil, we would be approaching things much differently. I guess we can't expect people to look at how things are actually being done before clinging to any conspiracy theyd like though. Eventually maybe there will be an oil pipeline there, and maybe we will have a hand in it. But if so that will have nothing to do with why we are there now.

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:

I think he is trying to say that US attack on Afghanistan was planned well before 9 11 and it is not directly related to US war on terrorism.
He is trying to say -I think- that the attack to Afghanistan was related to US strategic interests.

So he is saying the bin Laden was not involved in the attack since the attack occurred when the Taliban refused to turn bin Laden over. So then if not bin Laden, who does he think it was? His cut-and-paste makes it fairly clear that he thinks the attack was in the interest of the US so he must believe that the US launched the attack!

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
So he is saying the bin Laden was not involved in the attack

Where does exactly he says that?

[Gregg Bolinger]

Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:

Where does exactly he says that?

Bush blamed Bin Laden but has never offered any proof saying it's a "secret." Isn't that strange?
That is where "he" said that.

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:

Bush blamed Bin Laden but has never offered any proof saying it's a "secret." Isn't that strange?
That is where "he" said that.

Ah, yes.
He is hinting that OBL might not be the culprit of 9 11 attack.
I missed that point, thank you.
Well, that idea is quite strange, isn't it?

[Thomas Paul]

The other point is that if bin Laden was the culprit and the Taliban refused to turn him over as a criminal then the US was justified in attacking Afghanistan. Since "he" claims otherwise, he must believe that the US made up the reason for the attack and bin Laden was not the culprit.

[Anonymous]

Who cares whether it is a cut and paste.
Nobody has been able to refute a single word he said.

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by <slacker>:
Who cares whether it is a cut and paste.
Nobody has been able to refute a single word he said.

Or rather no one can be bothered - its easy to make claims, especially when untruths are mixed with truths. Disproving it would take a lot of work, which really isn't worth it. Maybe he should prove it instead.
My theory is that its all down to the Illuminati sitting in their underground room controlling the world. Disprove that.

[Thomas Paul]

Ok, Slacker, I'll dispute the things he writes:
We supported Bin Laden and the Taleban for years, and viewed them as freedom fighters against the Russians?
The Taliban didn't come into existence until 1994 well after the Soviet empire had crumbled and left Afghanistan. The US never supported the Taliban.
As late as 1998 the US was paying the salary of every single Taleban official in Afghanistan?
This is simply not true. The US stopped sending money to Afghanistan in 1991 after signing an agreement with the Soviet Union. The US never funded any of the Taliban. It is interesting however that 1998 was the year that the US agreed to a 10 year program to help Afghanistan recover from the war. None of the money was ever sent because of the sudden anti-western turn by the Taliban.
There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea area than in Saudi Arabia, but you need a pipeline through Afghanistan to get the oil out.
Saudi oil reserves are 265.3 bb. Caspian Sea oil reserves are 243 bb. Saudi natural gas reserves are 214.0 trillion cubic feet. Caspian Sea natural gas reserves are 463.4 Tcf. However we are comparing a single country (Saudi Arabia) to an entire region which includes several countries. The total oil reserves for the Middle East are 654.6 bb. The natural gas reserves are 1,985.3 Tcf.
What about pipelines? There are 18 pipelines either currently in existence, under construction, or being discussed. Two involve Afghanistan. The Afghanistan pipelines would be most helpful to Afghanistan and Pakistan as they would provide needed economic help. The proposed pipelines would involve oil only from Kazakhstan but Kazakhstan already has several existing pipelines that can handle current production. In fact, the Kazakhstan-China pipeline was cancelled because Kazakhstan could not commit to the required minimum oil production to make the pipeline feasible. This is not to say that an Afghanistan pipeline would not be agood thing. It would be able to carry a significant amout of oil (assuming production icreases in Kazakhstan). However, it is not a matter of life and death to the oil industry. Alternate pipelines do exist and additional pipelines are currently being built. To say that Afghanistan is the only way to get oil out of the Caspian Sea region is simply not true.
UNOCAL spent $10 billion on geological surveys for pipeline construction, and very nicely courted the Taleban for their support in allowing the construction to begin.
An American company wants to build a pipeline in a country so they open discussions with the government of that country. And that is strange, why? And the number is $10 million NOT $10 billion.
All of the leading Taleban officials were in Texas negotiating with UNOCAL in 1998. Isn't that strange?
That was actually 1997 when a Taliban delegation came to the US to meet with the US state department and UNOCAL. They were not all the leading Taliban officials. (Who was minding Afghanistan if that was the case?)
1998-1999 - The Taleban changed its mind and threw UNOCAL out of the country and awarded the pipeline project to a company from Argentina. Isn't that strange?
Actually it was UNOCAL who suspended the project in March of 1998 because of the on-going Civil War. In fact, at a shareholders meeting in June there were so many objections to continuing the project that it was officially killed by UNOCAL in December of 1998. Turkmenistan tried to keep the project going and invited Bridas (an energy company from Argentina) to continue the project. Because of conditions in Afghanistan, the project had laid dormant until recently. At this point it appears that Bridas will get the contract. UNOCAL has said they are not interested in the contract.
John Maresca, vice president of UNOCAL, testified before Congress and said no pipeline until the Taleban was gone and a more friendly government was established. Isn't that strange?
Maresca's testimony was in February of 1998 when UNOCAL was still involved in negotiations with the Taliban. Maresca's testimony was that the US needed to help stabilize the region. He was there to get the US to support the UN sponsored peace initiative. He said nothing about the Taliban having to leave. He said, "...we have made it clear that construction of our proposed pipeline cannot begin until a recognized government is in place that has the confidence of governments, lenders and our company." This makes sense since at the time very few countries recognized the Taliban as being the government of Afghanistan. Why would Maresca be publicly calling for the overthrow of the Taliban at the same time he was negotiating with them? Because he wasn't. He was calling for a UN sponsored peace settlement that would stabilize the region.
Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October. Isn't that strange?
Niaz Naik claimed to have been told in July of 2001 although he didn't mention it to anyone until after Sept 11th. Is he lying? Who knows. Did he misunderstand the scope of the propsed action? Perhaps the US was planning some action to get bin Laden. Bill Clinton had supposedly been trying to get bin Laden since the African embassy bombings.
Bush goes to war against Afghanistan even though none of the hijackers came from Afghanistan. Isn't that strange? Bush blamed Bin Laden but has never offered any proof saying it's a "secret." Isn't that strange?
Actually, most people agree that bin Laden was the culprit. The evidence is there for anyone who cares. And since bin Laden was hiding under the protection of the Taliban, attacking Afghanistan made sense. Why would the US attack Saudi Arabia when the Saudi's weren't hiding any terrorists?
[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]
[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]

[Paul Stevens]

slcker
I posted a link too and nobody has refuted a single word. That doesn't make the world flat until then does it? :roll:

[Jason Menard]

I refuted the overall presumtion that "it's the oil, stupid". Since I wrote it down, and you chose not to refute it, then I guess you must agree with it.

[Dan Chisholm]

Thomas,
You have done a great job of refuting the earlier claims, but one irrefutable fact remains: "Condoleezza" is a really nice name.

[Rufus BugleWeed]

I think there's some places on the globe that have be conquered over and over. Any world history buffs out there? Has Afghanistan been a nice quiet little shire until the big bad USA came along? It was desirable real estate even before oil ...
There's three important things in real estate and Afghanistan has one of them.
I'll bet it's been overun by a Muslim army at one time or another.
I'll save you a google search
see the history links
Condolezza needs to be fired.
[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: Rufus BugleWeed ]

[Muhammad Asif]

Hi all,
I did not post this thing to offend ne body.
I ne one was offended, I am sorry.
Secondly, I pasted the story at 2 place because of couple of months back I tried to post this story on Java Ranch, but it was deleted !!!
Secondly, About Mr. Thomas Paul. According to him Taleban came in to existance in 1994 ( ???).
I advise you to stop watching CNN, who has never shown u the truth. The Taleban (meant Students) were always involved in the war against Soviet-Union and it were these Taliban (got their name in 1994 i guess) who were helped by US!!
We all muslims care for every single innocent killed in the WTC (not justified) and no body has the proof of who has done it !!! But do you americans ever care for the millions of children STARVED to death in IRAQ.
Do you ever care for the people who died in Afghanistan, the innocent people?
Go to Afghanistan and you will see hundreds of thousands of Orphan Children, some of them as young as lesser than four years.
Belieive it or not .....
You people do have enough time to criticize your president on Damn SEX Scandal but did u ever take out the time for those people who were left home less, arm-less, legs-less or even head-less ...
But!!!
Why would u care ???
You are very content in enjoying your life while American government is going into war at ne place they find their own interests. (Beleive it or not this is the truth).
If you think that Iraq should be bombed for making nuclear weapons or weapons of Mass destructions, then I think US should be bombed because they were the ones to use this thing the very first time in history... and if you want to check out the reasons why these bombs were used... Search the Net . There were just three reasons ... and you'll be shocked to death to read them.
This is the only reason that ne country where George Bush goes (except Britain ), there are anti-US demonstrations, but the thing is how can u see those. Your media is free na . and ofcourse CNN , the best in the world
This is the reason, Americans are hated in the world because it is your money that is being used.
George bush is not paying this from his pocket.
Once again, No hard feelings
My Message:
Love for all, Hatred for none
Asif Abbasi

[David O'Meara]

Just to sound like a broken record:
Cut the contractions!
ne=any. It's one more letter, don't be lazy.
u=you. 2 letters.
na=dunno Mixed in with the contractions, it's difficult to decide if its a typo or something else
To quote Ashleigh Brilliant "If you don't want to communicate, then shut up"
But now I'm seriously off topic and starting to look like I'm trying to cause offence. Asif, this isn't really aimed at you, I'm just trying to curb the communication problems we've been experiencing lately.

[David O'Meara]

To get back on topic: What is the phonetic pronunciation of "Condoleezza"?
On the topic of deleted posts, it happens a lot at the moment for political and/or religious posts at the moment since our diverse readership can't seem to debate the issues without reverting to name calling. I was surprised this one wasn't instantly deleted, since a cut and paste that looks inflamatory without and context attached is more likely to turn into trouble than a worthwhile discussion.
But do you americans ever care for the millions of children STARVED to death in IRAQ.
I'm probably making Jason's argument for him, but many Americans would possibly be more than happy if the government ceased spending money on external aide and cleaned up its local problems instead. The point has been made before and possibly backed by figures and links, but I don't think you can back this point up.
Actually your imagery gets quite pretty towards the end, but I don't think it makes you point.
If anything, personally (as a non-US citizen) I feel the USA errs on the other extreme: They try to fix too much and take on everyone's problems and make them their own.
The pressure on Iraq is an indication of this, as is the foreign aide and 'manipulation' of external governments. As a race they appear to want everyone to be as happy as them, but they seem to want to accomplish this by creating mini USA's. Don't know about you, buggered if I'm going to sign up for that.
Anyway, I have a rule against posting to political threads, so I better go so you can quote me out of context
:roll:
Dave

[Thomas Paul]

Asif, you make a lot of claims but you don't back them up. The starving children of Iraq will eat like kings tomorrow if Sadaam would give up power. Is it the US's fault that Sadaam insists on building weapons of mass destruction. And do I need to remind you that it was Sadaam who used poison gas on Iranian troops?
The US supported the Mujahdeen. The Taliban did not exist during the war although certain members of the Taliban were in certain groups fighting the Soviets. But none of those groups were the ones receiving direct support from the US.
As I mentioned before, the US had agreed to help Afghanistan in 1998 with aid but the Taliban turned against the west before the aid was sent. The oil pipeline also would have brought billions of dollars to Afghanistan. Of course, the real question is why didn't Saudi Arabia with their billions in oil profits help Afghansitan? Is the US the only country in the world expected to help other countries?
The reason that their are anti-US protests all over the world is because people buy into the propaganda that they see in their government controlled newspapers. Perhaps if they lived a free life with a free press they could have access to the truth.
If you don't think bin laden blew up the WTC then who do you think did it? I want to hear your theories.
Now that I punched holes in every single one of your arguments, are you going to rethink your beliefs? Or don't you care? Are you just so filled with anti-American hatred that it doesn't matter what the truth is?
P.S. I never watch CNN.

[Dan Chisholm]

Originally posted by Asif Abbasi:
Do you ever care for the people who died in Afghanistan, the innocent people?

Asif,
The following is a quote from a paper published by the
State Department.

The United States has contributed more than $1 billion in humanitarian assistance to the Afghan people since 1979, more than any other country.

The above fact was widely reported here in the United States after September 11. Was the same true in your area?
After September 11 president Bush asked American children to send a one dollar donation to support the children of Afghanistan. I don't recall how much was collected, but I believe it was millions. What motivated those American children to donate money to Afghan children? Did Al Jazeera have anything to say about those donations?

[Muhammad Asif]

Hi

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

And do I need to remind you that it was Sadaam who used poison gas on Iranian troops?

No you donot need to remind me where Sadaam got the technology. It was Damn US again. Ask some of the Strategist why IRAQ went int war with QUWAIT. I hope you donot believe it was because he wanted to attack ISRAEL

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

The US supported the Mujahdeen. The Taliban did not exist during the war although certain members of the Taliban were in certain groups fighting the Soviets. But none of those groups were the ones receiving direct support from the US.
.

Yeah US was not directly supporting them. They were giving it to Pakistan who was handing over the arms to Afghanistan. Location of those arms was near Rawalpindi, Ojri Camp was the exact place. The Ojri-Camp contained weapons that were to be provided to Afghanis to fight Soviet-Union.

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

Of course, the real question is why didn't Saudi Arabia with their billions in oil profits help Afghansitan? Is the US the only country in the world expected to help other countries?
.

We donot expect it to help others. Rather than we want US to stop interfering with others and mind his own business. US is a bully. Thats what Nelson-Mandella says and of course CNN would have showed the truth

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

The reason that their are anti-US protests all over the world is because people buy into the propaganda that they see in their government controlled newspapers.
.

Some people would just believe what they are told

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

If you don't think bin laden blew up the WTC then who do you think did it? I want to hear your theories.
.

I did it Dear-O-Dear do I have to exaplain all these things again. My dear americans, your government in order to get oil for the next 50-100 years will give the sacrifice of 4000-5000 people ne time. Secondly,it was a part of the big game. This move did two things. First all over the world America has strongly emerged as the only super power, as no body even willed to stop it when it was carpet-bombing afghanistan. This meant America now has pshycological advantage over all the other countries. Secondly, ofcourse the oil reserves. Ne thing extra that comes with these two things is a bonus.

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

Now that I punched holes in every single one of your arguments, are you going to rethink your beliefs? Or don't you care? Are you just so filled with anti-American hatred that it doesn't matter what the truth is?
.

Really I am feeling the sting of those punches
My dear Thomas, I am not against America but against the attitude of American people. Currently America is at the peak economically, but the are at rock bottom when it comes to winning people's hearts.

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

P.S. I never watch CNN
.

I beleive every word you say. I guess you read Nawai-Waqt to keep your self updated
plz donot take ne of my comments personally. I donot want to offend ne body.
Love 4 all. Hated 4 None.
Regards
Asif Abbasi

[Muhammad Asif]

Originally posted by Dan Chisholm:

The above fact was widely reported here in the United States after September 11. Was the same true in your area?

Wow ! What a nice gesture ? How about China killing hundreds of thousands of people in US by bombing, and then President Xia-Xe-Mean asking chinese children to send Toys and Pizzas to US children who were left Orphans It would sound nice ???
The facts of these kinds will always be reported in United States because it shows the real hypocrisy of United States. Was this fact ever widely reported how many innocent people were killed in Afghanistan ?? probably not. you are the people who made those children homeless, so you are supposed to rebuild afghanistan.
Secondly, how about some one killing your parents and then offering you aid. I guess you won't like this na.
Mr.Dan grow up and stop thinking like children.
And one more thing....
Unless you people change your attitude. Like any post that I type, most of you would become Lawyers of the United States of America rather than think that ,'Hold One, May be he is right ??'
Why not explore the facts?? and Mind you exploring facts does not take a single search at google. It takes much more than that.
Have Fun as much as u can . I am not sure how long it will last after America's atrocities against poor people.
Asif Abbasi

[Paul Stevens]

asif
I did it Dear-O-Dear do I have to exaplain all these things again. My dear americans, your government in order to get oil for the next 50-100 years will give the sacrifice of 4000-5000 people ne time. Secondly,it was a part of the big game. This move did two things. First all over the world America has strongly emerged as the only super power, as no body even willed to stop it when it was carpet-bombing afghanistan. This meant America now has pshycological advantage over all the other countries. Secondly, ofcourse the oil reserves. Ne thing extra that comes with these two things is a bonus.

Are you trying to say it was in retaliation for the US bombing Afghanistan? Or that we blew ourselves up? Either way, totally clueless statements.
You don't say anything that makes sense or can be backed up with facts.
There are children starving in Iraq because Sadaam uses the money to keep himself in power.
Sadaam got much of his weapons from China/North Korea(some Russian made as well) and parts from Europe for his nuclear program.
Don't let anyone confuse you with actual facts.

[Jason Menard]

Originally posted by Asif Abbasi:
Why not explore the facts??

What facts would you like us to explore? You've certainly not offered any. I suppose the facts that we've offered, since they conflict with your preconceived notions, do not count.

I am not sure how long it will last after America's atrocities against poor people.

Let me help you with a google search.
Coming off as a blatant anti-American and then saying "I don't mean to offend" and "hatred 4 none" (sounds like a boy band) doesn't fool anyone. Since you have us at a disadvantage, perhaps you could tell us which enlightened country you come from? Or would that be asking too much?

[Thomas Paul]

It was the Soviets who invaded Afghanistan, not the US. But you don't care about that. It was Sadaam who used poison gas on the Iranians but you don't care about that. You gripe when the US doesn't help and then you gripe when the US does help. The US can do nothing right in your eyes. Your twisted mind decided that the US by magic destroyed the World Trade Center and made it look like arabs did it. The US tricked the Soviets into invading Afghanistan. The US paid Sadaam to poison Iranians. The US blew up a civilian airliner because we hate Iranians. Only a person filled with hatred could believe these things. Only a complete idiot or a troll would come here and make these claims.
(Edited by Cindy to remove a personal insult).
[ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Cindy Glass ]

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Since you have us at a disadvantage, perhaps you could tell us which enlightened country you come from? Or would that be asking too much?

He's from Pakistan. He's probably hiding bin Laden in his basement.

[Jason Menard]

Ahhh... Pakistan. That paints a clearer picture.

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
You are an idiot Asif.

Being a sheriff does not give you the right to insult other JavaRanchers.
I hope other sheriffs will take note and action.
You are not above the law.
(actually I did it before I noticed your comment - Cindy)
[ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Cindy Glass ]

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by Asif Abbasi:
you are the people who made those children homeless, so you are supposed to rebuild afghanistan.

Since Afghanistan has been fighting either a war with the Soviets or a civil war for the last 20 years, how did the US make those children homeless? Or are we just the great satan and anything wrong in the world must be our fault?

[Thomas Paul]

Originally posted by OMAR KHAN:

Being a sheriff does not give you the right to insult other JavaRanchers.
I hope other sheriffs will take note and action.
You are not above the law.

Omar, stick it. You want to claim that my country blew up the world trade center for oil then you are going to be called an idiot or worse.
Besides, anyone who spells "any" as "ne" is an idiot.
[ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]

[omar khan]

Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

Besides, anyone who spells "any" as "ne" is an idiot.
[ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]

This I cannot disagree
Sorry Asif.

[Tracy Woo]

Asif, before US was involved in Afghanistan, how was the condition of people there? I would not say anything else except that the atrocities on women were (and still are) beyond imgination. Any place that does not give equal status and opportunies to its almost 50% population is, by default, doomed. This is true with entire Islamic world. It is true for many other countries as well but more so in the Islamic world. So don't blame your fault on others. If not US, there would be somebody else.
Every country, forget countries, every person, tries to do better for himself. Given a chance, EVERYBODY tries accumulate more than what he already has. About 200-300 years ago when the Afghanis were all powerful, didn't they raid the nearby places for gold? As I understand Pakistan's missile named "Ghouri" was named after such a raider. When Japan was powerful (miltarily), it colonized China. The Arab nations have always been at each others throat. Iran - Iraq war was not due to US, right? The 7 days war was not due to US, right? Iraq did not attack Quwait due to US, right? All these wars happened SOLELY due to personal interest.
So what's wrong if US tries to make sure that it gets an uninterrupted supply of oil? Politics has been around probably since the first civilization came into existance. These days, internationl politics does what war used to do some decades ago. And money is one powerful arm of politics. US uses it well
Getting to the main topic, I think, Oil has always been the ONLY bone of contention in that wretched place. Almost all western countries are after it. WTC just precipitated the matters.
In general, western contries have always been after the resources of the east. Earlier (during imperialism), it was gold, trade etc. and now it is oil. I read in NY times yesterday that US is now focusing its attention of African countries that have good amount of oil.