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On the veggie/vegan subject....

 
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Sridevi Kovvali:
Looks good for argument sake. I don't understand clearly what u mean?. If you want to convey that your Houseplant and your
pet (cat) are equal and eating lettuce and meat are one and the same.

You misunderstood. Someone made the point that how could a person eat a cow and yet love their dog. The point is that a cow is not a dog. Cows are raised to be eaten and dogs are raised to be pets. They may both be mammals but they aren't the same species.
 
Thomas Paul
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Originally posted by Sridevi Kovvali:
The world is not want u think and perceive. U might think that a cow is raised to be eaten and dogs are raised to become pets. But it has already been said in this forum and thread their are other cultures/religions which treat a cow as equivalent to god and also cultures which eat dogs. I do agree with u that a cow is not a dog. But they both fall under animals. If u still don't understand the concepts draw the diagrams based on set theory and the classifications like mammals, different species etc fall under animals and in the bigger sense fall under Living beings. FYI, it is me who has raised the point of pets/animal food and i haven't mentioned any cow or dog.


In my neighborhood, cows are raised to be eaten and dogs are raised to be pets. If I lived somewhere else I am sure I would think differently.
It is true that cows and dogs both fall under "animals". They also fall under "things with hair", "things that are bigger than pebbles", and "things that smell funny when wet". What is so significant about the "animal" category that means we shouldn't eat anything in that category?
 
Greenhorn
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Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
you could define me as a veggie,...
... Those who don't eat meat but do eat fish (me)


i hate to drag this out and i'm sure i'll get told off for it, but if you eat fish you are in no way a vegetarian, sorry. vegetarians, any type, do not eat any animal flesh at all. wether they choose to also eliminate dairy and eggs is a different story but no veg eats fish. you could call yourself piscevore though (i think that's the correct term anyway)
 
Ranch Hand
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Originally posted by Sandra Lavigne:
vegetarians, any type, do not eat any animal flesh at all. wether they choose to also eliminate dairy and eggs is a different story but no veg eats fish.


Actually fish are not animals. So it should be ok.
Just seems totally hypocritical to me to say "We wont eat an animals meat, but we will eat all the other products from it including the eggs(underdeveloped versions of the animal).

 
Sandra Lavigne
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of course they're animals. every conscious being is an animal. we are animals.
and in all fairness, the eggs we eat are not fertilized are they? i mean i'm not entirely sure on that but aren't they fertilized after laying? if not i sound stupid i know, but if i'm right... they aren't really underdeveloped animals, but have the potential to be.
 
Greenhorn
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On the subject of vegan and vegitarian, I was wondering what the difference was, if any? Also what are the things you need to eat to replace the protein you would be getting from meat? Thank you
 
Ranch Hand
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Originally posted by Andrew Shafer:

To reiterate my point, you only remain alive because something else gives up life. Either spinach or mutton, one way or another, something will die or else you will. To choose between one or the other as better to die is arbitrary.


so I presume this extends to humans aswell? babies too?
/me suspects a canibal is in our midst
 
Tim Baker
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Originally posted by Andy Ceponis:

Actually fish are not animals. So it should be ok.
Just seems totally hypocritical to me to say "We wont eat an animals meat, but we will eat all the other products from it including the eggs(underdeveloped versions of the animal).


As a baby can suckle at the mothers teet without murdering her, so a vegetarian can drink milk.
You will find that fish are animals, they aint mammals for sure, but an animal is just a plant that exibits extra characteristics.
 
Ranch Hand
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vegans are like extremist veggies.
Where veggies eat no meat (or more likely don't eat some kinds of meat) for mainly sentimental reasons, vegans don't use (in whatever way) anything that came from an animal either living or dead.
Many (and Sandra among them) are more than a bit hypocritical in that they WILL use animal products if their lifes depend on it, IMO if they're as strict as they claim to be they'd lay down their own life for that animal!
It is now well established that the human brain could develop to its present size and complexity ONLY through the intake of high levels of animal protein, which means through the consumption of animal meat as a main source of food.
Man is, like a bear, a predator as well as a gatherer of foods.
Due to his increased intellect Man has learned to tame and breed food animals, reducing the energy expidenture needed for gathering food...
 
town drunk
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Many (and Sandra among them) are more than a bit hypocritical in that

This entire thread seems to be headed in an direction that might, possibly, indicate that some rancher or another is less then perfect: please don't let it.
As a FYI, I was a compete vegan for over 4 years: This was during a period in which I fought semi-professionally(boxing), and engaged in full-contact, no holds barred cage matches.
If you're interested in accuracy, it's probably not a good idea to generalize about people's character, one way or another, based on such arbitrary things as diet.
All best,
M
 
High Plains Drifter
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http://vegsource.com/joanne/vegan.htm
 
Max Habibi
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In the standard usage, two definitions are given. As one former practioner, I feel the first definiation, dealing with

a strict vegetarian who consumes no animal food or dairy products

is the more accurate than the second.

also : one who abstains from using animal products (as leather)

Of course, YMMV
M
[ February 28, 2004: Message edited by: Max Habibi ]
 
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lurk
 
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Hannibal the Cat Cannibal
 
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Ok, lets get things strait.
WHY ARE PEOPLE VEGETARIAN/VEGAN?
1. Ethical
I dont really understand the standpoint of one saying "killing an animal is the same as killing a plant". From the age of approximately 2, a child knows the difference between plants and animals. At this tender age, their definition may not have scientific accuracy, but basically, one moves, the other doesn't. As one gets older, the will formulate more scientifically correct definitions (ex. One had a nervous system, the other doesn't). This is significant because nearly all the mindset of treatment of animals of the common westerner has to do with pain or suffering, which plants obviously cannot. So, basically, by eating an inanimate object you are doing the least harm. By eating a plant, you are doing a bit of harm, since plants are still living), by eating animals, you are doing the most harm (they suffer).
2. Health/Nutrition
Ok, lets set this straight. Being veg__an doesnt mean you eat salad for every meal, although that may be a common perception. It mearly means you do not comsume animal products.
For example, in India, the country with the most veg_ans, the tradition diet, formulated by thinkers over thousands of years, consists of pori/nan/chapathi/other variant, which is basically like pita bread (theres the wheat group(carbs)). Eaten with it is bhaghi(Looks weird writing it in English, but it is basically just cooked vegetables. These can be anthing from beans(protein/fat) to greens(other nutrients)). After, or before that(depending on where in India you're at), one eats bhat, or rice(more carbs), with more vegetables. Of course, one also eats fruits, but not usually during dinner/lunch.
The opinion of a 15 year old boy.
 
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One of the hardest parts of being a veggie is constantly having to justify your eating habits. For some reason three of my pervious girlfriends have been vegetarian (I eat lots of steak me!) and I used to see them dealing with the usual questions like "So what about [insert random food here]? Do you eat that?" and "How come you've got leather shoes then?". Then there are other people with the eye rolling and making "moo" sounds when they stick their forks into their burgers like its the first time its been done! All pretty harmless incidents on their own I'm sure, but after a while it can make some people overly sensitive and defensive.
Probably akin to admitting you're a Christian in England and trying to talk about Jesus! People will kind of go bit quiet. Then after a while they'll start to ask questions like "Do you drink? Do you masturbate? Do you only listen to Cliff Richard?" Of course Christians taste alot better than veggies. They're not as lean and can be a bit starchy, but tie them to a stake and flame cook 'em - delicious!
[ March 08, 2004: Message edited by: Richard Hawkes ]
 
Richard Hawkes
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Top of the page there's an ad for veggie dating Now there's a first. Does that mean you can get meat dating too ...?
 
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Why would you have to justify your eating habits unless you made them an issue in the first place? I usually find that people who bring up their being a vegetarian are trying to convince me that they are morally superior and that I should be one too.
 
Jeroen Wenting
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Why would you have to justify your eating habits unless you made them an issue in the first place? I usually find that people who bring up their being a vegetarian are trying to convince me that they are morally superior and that I should be one too.


Well said, the ones who bring it up are usually the zealots like PETA who want to force others to adopt their view of the world.
 
Tim Baker
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You might not, but lots of other people do question it. And it's feckin annoying. It's like everyone thinks they can argue you out of being a vegetarian, when all you want to do is order your Quorn burger and eat it.
Oh and PETA are a whole lot less annoying than jehovas witnesses
 
Wanderer
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[Tom]: I usually find that people who bring up their being a vegetarian are trying to convince me that they are morally superior and that I should be one too.
Well the other time it comes up is in the context of "where shall we go for lunch?" etc. There have been plenty of times I've become aware that someone is a vegetarian without feeling I was being preached at. There are some obnoxious vegetarians in the world, much as there are obnoxious meat-eaters, atheists, Christians, liberals, conservatives, and many other types of people - but there are also plenty of other folks in each category who do not insist on trying to get everyone around them to act the same as them. It's just that we tend to notice and remember the obnoxious people more than the quiet ones.
 
Richard Hawkes
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I'm lucky, I never knew any evangelical veggies. The only time I ever heard my veggie friends "preach" was in defense to people trying to cure them of their eating habits.
 
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Tim Baker:
Oh and PETA are a whole lot less annoying than jehovas witnesses

An organization that throws red paint on the coats of little old women is less annoying than a group that knocks on your door and leaves as soon as you tell them to? I'll bet if you and your dog were both drowning that you would prefer a Jehova Witness to be the lifeguard instead of a PETA member.
 
Richard Hawkes
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
I'll bet if you and your dog were both drowning that you would prefer a Jehova Witness to be the lifeguard instead of a PETA member.
... and if you needed a blood transfusion afterwards you'd be calling back the PETA guy! ha ha ha!
 
Tim Baker
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
An organization that throws red paint on the coats of little old women is less annoying than a group that knocks on your door and leaves as soon as you tell them to?


Yes, at least it was a woman who chose to wear fur. I didn't chose to have a front door, or something.

Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
[qb]I'll bet if you and your dog were both drowning that you would prefer a Jehova Witness to be the lifeguard instead of a PETA member.
... and if you needed a blood transfusion afterwards you'd be calling back the PETA guy! ha ha ha![/QB]


pure class
 
Jeroen Wenting
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Yes, at least it was a woman who chose to wear fur. I didn't chose to have a front door, or something
So if I choose to wear fur that gives PETA the right to throw paint at me?
And btw, you could always choose to remove your frontdoor or have a house built without one
I've talked with Yehovah's witnesses, and they now no longer come calling.
I didn't get angry, just pointed out that I was not interested in their religion and that their continued patronage caused me distress and made them look bad. They promised to have my name and address placed on their list of people to skip and that seems to work.
They used to come by at least once a month, I haven't seen them in over a year now.
I still get flyers and brochures from environmentalists, despite having a big red sticker on my letterbox stating I don't want any printed matter not directly addressed to me...
 
Tim Baker
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:

So if I choose to wear fur that gives PETA the right to throw paint at me?


Yep
 
Ranch Hand
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Originally posted by Tim Baker:

Yep


So you should be able to destroy other peoples property if you don't agree with them?
 
Tim Baker
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Originally posted by Paul Stevens:

So you should be able to destroy other peoples property if you don't agree with them?


Only if you're right
 
author
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So I don't eat red meat, I avoid leather products, I avoid products tested on animals, for the sake of simplicity, I call myself a vegetarian... even though I know that strictly speaking I'm not, for me I guess it's more about an overall orientation than it is about the letter of the law.
p.s.
I think that the managers of companies like Monsanto that genetically engineer crops for their own shortsighted gain should be stung up by their thumbs
 
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Originally posted by Bert Bates:
So I don't eat red meat, I avoid leather products, I avoid products tested on animals, for the sake of simplicity, I call myself a vegetarian... even though I know that strictly speaking I'm not, for me I guess it's more about an overall orientation than it is about the letter of the law.


Tell that to a chicken!
 
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
I usually find that people who bring up their being a vegetarian are trying to convince me that they are morally superior and that I should be one too.


Do you think you are morally superior than cannibals ??
 
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Hi there,
I am new to this thread, Indian and non-vegetarian. (Those were separate facts strung together with no connection whatsoever). I am also a zoology graduate and Sridevi, believe u me, plants are as alive as the cat next door!! (And yes they love Mozart )
I love my dog, eat chicken, fish, etc in moderation and dont think the 2 contradict each other just as I dont think tending my garden lovingly contradicts eating spinach for dinner. I am not defensive about being non vegetarian now than I was about being vegetarian earlier as each was about a belief I held at that particular point in time.
I think trying very hard to justify either point of view doesnt make sense ... someone said that why do vegetarians need to justify their point of view... they dont!! When asked, just say I like it! And if you dont like it, change it!
Cheers!
P.S: Dairy is a big part of an Indian diet!!!
[ March 11, 2004: Message edited by: Aneesha Singh ]
 
Tim Baker
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When someone asks me I just say "Because I don't want to eat animals" why? "Because it's disgusting". That usually shuts em up
 
I suggest huckleberry pie. But the only thing on the gluten free menu is this tiny ad:
Building a Better World in your Backyard by Paul Wheaton and Shawn Klassen-Koop
https://coderanch.com/wiki/718759/books/Building-World-Backyard-Paul-Wheaton
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