Bear Bibeault wrote:
Stevens Miller wrote:(don't anyone tell Bear I haven't read his book yet ).
Bear Bibeault wrote:Devil's advocate: as you are already familiar with web technologies, why bother with desktop apps at all? Any app that doesn't need to directly interface to resources on the local machine (vast majority) can be delivered as a web-faced app if that's tech that you are more comfortable with.
Mike London wrote: this image is exactly how I thought of you
Mike London wrote:OK, but this begs the question....what's the quickest way I can stand up a Web app?
Node.js? Lots of interest (hype?) with Node, lately.
A Servlet does have access to the file system so a "Web app" could still do desktop type tasks.
I have found that Java is a great tool but its real home from my experience is in the enterprise or with companies with serious budgets.
For smaller shops, a faster tool is needed.
Are you aware of a good HTML GUI builder (more usable than DW) that supports things like JQuery UI and in any way, makes building interfaces quicker than doing it in code?
Dave Tolls wrote:
If you want a decent UI then you need a UI specialist, pretty much whatever language you're in. I point this out to clients all the time.
A dev is not a UI designer. Well, very rarely...
Dave Tolls wrote:A dev is not a UI designer. Well, very rarely...
Stevens Miller wrote:
Now, I would venture that a great programmer can create a pretty good UI, if that programmer keeps it simple, reads a book or two on UI design, and sticks to the basics. UI designs is mature enough that it has developed some reliable principles that can be stated plainly and followed easily. If your app can work within the limits of the most basic of those principles, your programmer can also design your UI (or you can).
Dave Tolls wrote:A couple of years ago me and another contractor had to cobble together an in-house web-app for a client.
The initial concepts were simple, but as the project ran on more and more extras were asked for and, neither of us being UI designers, the result became more and more cluttered...
Karthik Shiraly wrote:"... can't remember even a single java desktop or applet application that became popular with the general public, even in the heydays of Java and desktops."
Tim Moores wrote:I don't think the open source nature of it makes any difference at this point. Client-side Java is dead in general, irrespective of the framework it runs. Security concerns of the JVM have finished it off. Some companies may continue to use it internally on carefully controlled and updated machines, but not for anything that's meant for the general public.
Bear Bibeault wrote:Whether Swing or JavaFX are dead is kinda irrelevant to your studies. What you learn about GUI programming will be useful and applicable to other languages and GUI systems.
Bear Bibeault wrote:Do you get to choose
Mike London wrote:Thanks...your reply is appreciated.
I guess it's still the bad taste in my mouth from Swing all those years ago, but I really dislike all the layout manager nonsense. Well, I know it's not nonsense since layout managers let you build stuff in code, but I just want an "IDE" where I can drag fields to where I want and be done with it. Even the Scene Builder requires you use layout managers.. Yuck.
(The 1200 page Learn Java FX book doesn't cover Scene Builder I don't believe except maybe to ... mention it.)
There has to be a more straightforward, less frustrating, and fast way to build user interfaces than "Layout Managers".
David Garratt wrote:Totally agree with this.
Mike London wrote:There has to be a more straightforward, less frustrating, and fast way to build user interfaces than "Layout Managers".
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