MH
Originally posted by Ram Abdullah D'Souza:[/QB]
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Mani
Quaerendo Invenietis
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Originally posted by Damien Howard:
I just finished reading "More than a carpenter" by Josh McDowell yesterday. He uses logic to prove that Jesus must have existed and must indeed be the son of god. And thus christianity is correct.
"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Originally posted by Jeffrey Hunter:
He's an absentee landlord.
Originally posted by Damien Howard:
I just finished reading "More than a carpenter" by Josh McDowell yesterday. He uses logic to prove that Jesus must have existed and must indeed be the son of god. And thus christianity is correct.
He made some very good points which I find difficult to refute.
I am curious as to whether anyone has been able to use logic to prove any other religion's claims. I be interested to read such a book if it exists. Does anyone know of a book that attempts to prove Islam or any of the other major religions (preferebly other than Judaism since Christianity is based on Judaism and could thus be seen as complimentary rather than contradictory)?
Originally posted by Max Habibi:
[qb]He uses logic to prove that Jesus must have existed and must indeed be the son of god. And thus christianity is correct.
I'd like to hear his argument, so long as it's presented as an argument, and open to critical dissection.[/QB]
Originally posted by Max Habibi:
[qb]He uses logic to prove that Jesus must have existed and must indeed be the son of god. And thus christianity is correct.
I'd like to hear his argument, so long as it's presented as an argument, and open to critical dissection.[/QB]
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
The fallacy with this statement is assuming good is god. Being good does mean God is in you. I know a lot of people that are plain good folk. But they don't believe in God. And bad is evil doesn't make sense. I'm bad sometimes, but I'm not evil.
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Originally posted by Max Habibi:
Originally posted by Damien Howard:
[qb]
He explains that it is not possible for all of the events to have happened and be believed if they weren't true.
I'd like to hear this explanation.
He finds holes in peoples' arguments that attempt to disprove or contradict christ and his claims.
AFIK, it's not necessary, logically speaking, that holy scriptures be disproven. The burden of proof falls on the party making an assertion: this, for example, is why people are assumed innocent until proven guilty.
It is a short read if you are really interested, although you have to get past the first 30 pages to get to the logical part since the first 30 pages are garbage in that he uses the "hypothesis" to prove the "hypothesis", but after that the book is a lot more logical.
I've never really been religious so I'm not telling anyone that this guy is right or wrong, I just found it interesting that is all. I was just curious as to whether anyone had written a similar book for another religion for comparative purposes.
Well, I'll bet there've been one or two, yes
M[/QB]
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
God is within ur heart.it's the purity.in every situation in life,there is two choices.good and bad.good is god and bad is evil.my god is good,love,purity...etc
The fallacy with this statement is assuming good is god. Being good does mean God is in you. I know a lot of people that are plain good folk. But they don't believe in God. And bad is evil doesn't make sense. I'm bad sometimes, but I'm not evil. A better statement would be evil is Satan. However, not all religions believe in Satan or hell even though they may believe in a god.
...follow good.u r following god
Originally posted by Damien Howard:
But an example of one of his points is paraphrased as follows:
If Jesus were not the son of god then he would have to be crazy or leading his life as a lie.
If this is an example of the logic, then I'm comfortable that nothing's been 'proven' yet, strictly speaking
Innocent until proven guilty is an ideal, it is not the reality of our world.
P(a)=1-P(not a)
demonstrating one is as good as demonstrating the other.
Burden of proof is on the one making the claim, but both sides make a claim
One claims existence, one claims lack of existence.
Not from a strictly logical point of view. Logically speaking, if one side is making a claim("the answer to the equation is 42"), then the burden of proof falls on that side.
If the other side is not claiming to know the answer("I don't know the answer to the equation, but no one's found that magic number so far"), than they are not required to prove anything, and the standing assumption is that equation is not solved.
M
Originally posted by Damien Howard:
If Jesus were not the son of god then he would have to be crazy or leading his life as a lie.
But the idea of him being crazy does not match what we "know" of his life.
And the idea of him leading a lie is also very difficult to believe because of its consistency and how he got his apostles to also believe etc.
...destroy Himself.
So, He did, and since then He's been going through the motions of reassembling Himself. Every living thing collectively makes up "God", we are all part of the debris, part of the reassembly process.
Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
Did anybody read The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity?
I didn't, but it worries me that some people take the new testament as an eyewitness account of what happened, which is not the position held by the christian scholars.
The gospels were written decades after the death of Jesus by anonymous writers which were not there when it all happened. The names on the gospels were given later by church leaders. But they did not know who wrote them. This is the position of Christian scholars and not of just 'atheists' etc. BTW.
All this is said with all due repect to all those who believe (emphasis on believe, like another poster previously emphasized) different.
Originally written by Jill Heatherly:
Since its release, More Than a Carpenter has been challenging readers to ask the question, "Who is Jesus?" Author and renowned speaker Josh McDowell acknowledges that while the topic of God is widely accepted, the name of Jesus often causes irritation. "Why don't the names of Buddha, Mohammed, Confucius offend people? The reason is that these others didn't claim to be God, but Jesus did." By addressing questions about scientific and historical evidence, the validity of the Bible, and proofs of the resurrection, McDowell helps the reader come to an informed and intelligent decision about whether Jesus was a liar, a lunatic, or the Lord. This short, 128-page gem does not employ fancy theological words, forsaking the layman, but reads more like an intimate research document laying out the facts with veracious accuracy, from reliable sources ranging from secular scientists to conservative seminarians. A skeptic himself for many years, McDowell always believed that Christians were "out of their minds" but now insists that "never has an individual been called upon to commit intellectual suicide in trusting Christ as Savior and Lord." McDowell adeptly articulates fundamental answers to poignant questions that cause the skeptic to consider whether Jesus was a liar causing countless martyrs to die in his wake, a lunatic deserving death, or actually the Lord of the universe.
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"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
Tony Alicea
Senior Java Web Application Developer, SCPJ2, SCWCD
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"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
...(and we will never know for sure)...
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"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
Actually, Tony, you are mistaken. The gospels of Matthew and Mark are based on a source called Q that is probably written within 10 years or less of Jesus' death. All of the gospels were probably written witin the lifetimes of people who lived at the same time as Jesus. John is possibly that only Gospel that was written more than 50 years after the crucifixion although some scholars believe that John may have been earlier. The letters of Paul were actually written by Paul and he lived at the same time as Jesus. He spoke to and knew all of the apostles.Originally posted by Tony Alicea:
Gregg: I respect your beliefs (isn't it great we live in the USA?!) but the point that I was trying to make (which is not mine originally) is that the "intelligentsia" who have studied these things in a detached manner, say that the gospels are anonymous and written way after Jesus' death. In a time when life expectancy was low compared to the present time.
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Actually, Tony, you are mistaken. The gospels of Matthew and Mark are based on a source called Q that is probably written within 10 years or less of Jesus' death. All of the gospels were probably written witin the lifetimes of people who lived at the same time as Jesus. John is possibly that only Gospel that was written more than 50 years after the crucifixion although some scholars believe that John may have been earlier. The letters of Paul were actually written by Paul and he lived at the same time as Jesus. He spoke to and knew all of the apostles.
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MH
Originally posted by Ram Abdullah D'Souza:
{
For me, it is hard to believe that an "almighty god" would give us a book of such ambiguity to follow
}
I think this is valid for every religion except Buddhism.Somebody said above doing good means following God and doing bad means following Evil.Who decides what is good or bad?Definition of good or bad changes from time to time I think.200 years back women going to school was considered bad and hence evil everywhere in the world.But now its not the case.
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