Reverse air rage on Russian jet

[Helen Thomas]

Reverse air rage on Russian jet

And just when things were looking up for Russian air passengers after the freshly painted planes and lessons in politeness and caring for the stewards and stewardesses.

See No more services with a scowl

[Jeroen Wenting]

Happened about 2 weeks ago, the airline took immediate action.
Very bad thing to happen to any airline of course, but especially one with as bad an image as Aeroflop when attempting its utmost to make themselves look good with new outward appearances to try and make potential customers forget the past.

I've flown them in the late 1980s and I'm not volluntarilly getting on one of their aircraft again.
Even then their aircraft were poorly maintained, service was next to non-existent (on some flights we had to stow our own luggage, presumably because requiring the service from someone else was not socialist... And that was the least of it).
Many people outside the (former) USSR who've experienced them probably think the same and many on the inside have no choice but fly them (or one of their now independent offshoots which all rely on old Aeroflop equipment and crew).

[Tom Hill]

Im thinking something about the cheeky girls

[Mapraputa Is]

but especially one with as bad an image as Aeroflop

It's Aeroflot, not Aeroflop.

I've flown them in the late 1980s and I'm not volluntarilly getting on one of their aircraft again.

That's Ok, I guess. Thanks for sharing your 20-year old experience. I thought, only Russians use Aeroflot, but it turned out lots of people do, 'cause the flights are twice cheaper. To be honest, food is horrible, but for $500 discount you can suffer one bad meal, I suppose.

[Axel Janssen]

I once used russian plane by flying from Cologne to Cuba with cuban airlines.
Found it not that much difference from Airbus or Boeing. No space like everywhere.

Only point: A bit scary were that suddenly something emited a lot of white vapor inside the cabin short before landing. They said that this was their air condition.

The next 3 weeks converted me from anti-comunist to serious anti-comunist, but we are not going to discuss political stuff, right?
[ July 26, 2004: Message edited by: Axel Janssen ]

[Helen Thomas]

Well, it's not very reassuring that,now, you can be thumped by a Russian air crew.

Flew Air Namibia once crewed by a Scandinavian bunch. The plane was a near right-off but the crew were reassuringly professional. The planet depends on keeping those air ways open. So hopefully this event will be but a distant memory overtaken by Russian professionalism and punters would continue to use Aeroflop, sorry, Aeroflot.

[Richard Hawkes]

Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
Well, it's not very reassuring that,now, you can be thumped by a Russian air crew.

At least the pilots didn't join in, eh

[Mark Fletcher]

If this was Slashdot (Slashdolt?), someone might say

"In Soviet Russia, flight crew attack YOU!"

Thankfully it aint, but I thought I would point it out.
[ July 27, 2004: Message edited by: Mark Fletcher ]

[Jim Yingst]

Speaking of which - what's Yakov Smirnoff been up to since the cold war ended, anyway?

[Ashok Mash]

I once flew with Aeroflot; I didn't think their aircrafts where bad to be honest (no in-flight entertainment but it was clean and seats comfortable). I am uncertain about everything else though!

The airport at Moscow was a bit grey and gloomy and after a 3-hour delay we were boarded onto the aircraft and then the aircraft didn�t take off for another 2 hours!! Scariest of all was when two massive cranes started spraying hot water (?) over the wings on both sides of the craft, to defreeze the wings apparently. In fairness, it was December and temperature was 30C below zero in Moscow that evening!!

[Michael Matola]

I've done 5 flight segments on Aeroflot domestic -- but not very recently (1991 and 1994).

Overall the flights were fairly uneventful. Ok, the Moscsow to Kyiv round trips were fairly amusing. The pilots pulled these pretty spectacular nose-first descents from cruising altitude to landing. (I've been told that it's more fuel efficient than nose-up banked descents. Don't know if that's true.) I remember my body lifting up out of the seat at the beginning of the descent, just like cresting a hill on a roller coaster. Whee!

I flew once from St. Petersburg to Izhevsk on Aeroflot domestic. Even though I bought my ticket at the Russian rate (also at a student discount), I had to go through a special foreigner check-in (I'm a US citizen) and wait in a special foreigner waiting room (the only other person there was a young Bulgarian woman on a different flight). I had asked if I could just wait and board with all the other passengers, but this was refused. When the time came to board, they sent a whole shuttle bus and foreigner escort person to take me out to the plane first. After I boarded, they sent the bus for the rest of the passengers. I felt pretty embarassed at all the special treatment.

Things were much more laid back in Izhevsk. When we landed, I followed the crowd down the stairs and across the tarmac. (Had only hand luggage.) However, we didn't actually go into the terminal; we walked through a huge gap in the tall fence that surrounded the airport. Sure enough, that's where my Russian friend was waiting for me, along with everyone else waiting for passengers. I didn't ask.

[Helen Thomas]

Michael Matola : However, we didn't actually go into the terminal; we walked through a huge gap in the tall fence that surrounded the airport. Sure enough, that's where my Russian friend was waiting for me, along with everyone else waiting for passengers. I didn't ask.

I laughed loud and hard on reading this post. Thank you.

[Mapraputa Is]

Michael Matola : However, we didn't actually go into the terminal; we walked through a huge gap in the tall fence that surrounded the airport. Sure enough, that's where my Russian friend was waiting for me, along with everyone else waiting for passengers. I didn't ask.



That's Russia for you. My grandma's house was strategically separated from a grocery store by a University's Botanical Garden. She always went to the store through a hole in the fence. I still remember how it looked... As much a Russian thing, as an apple pie for Americans. Symbolic also: communism built fences all around, but what kind of oppression it was, if each had a hole.

The only weird thing I noticed on Aeroflot flights was passengers applauding when we landed in Seattle. I thought it’s a kind of tradition, but I've never seen it since then.

[Dan Maples]

ASHOK- Scariest of all was when two massive cranes started spraying hot water (?) over the wings on both sides of the craft, to defreeze the wings apparently.

That was alcohal they sprayed on the wings to melt any ice on them and help more ice from forming. They use alcohal because it has a low freezing temp. They CAN'T use hot water because when it cools down it will freeze making a worse problem, whereas alcohal won't. Some modern planes have what is called "wheeping wings" in which alcohal is pumped slowly out tiny laser drilled holes in the wings to prevent ice from forming in flight. Probably more than you wanted to know

Besides I heard alcohal is cheaper than water in Russia anyway j.k.
[ July 27, 2004: Message edited by: Dan Maples ]

[Jeroen Wenting]

Actually, the control surfaces in most current aircraft can be electrically heated to prevent icing, as can the cockpit windows and engine air intake leading edges.

Deicing is usually done using superheated steam at high pressure, anti-freeze can be mixed in if needed.

Diving during descent is indeed more fuel efficient as you can descend at a lower power setting for your engines.
It's commonly used on many aircraft but less often with modern (1980s and onward) designs than before that because of the lesser passenger comfort.

My Aeroflop experience include an emergency landing, several leaky pressure cabins (which would have grounded the aircraft almost anywhere else), being locked up in a waiting room without amenities for 20 hours under armed guard with 40 or so others, the "service with a scowl" which is typical of Aeroflop, their trademark food and drinks (microwaved chicken without spices and salt water, served to no more than 30 passengers at a time because that's all the trays and cups on board), having to stow our own luggage, etc.
And as foreigners we got preferential treatment, after all you have to show the best face of world socialism to the capitalists...

[Dan Maples]

Jeroen-

'Weeping Wing' De-icing equipment including flying surfaces, prop and windscreen. This is the Rolls Royce of deice systems giving 1.5 (deice) to 2.5 hours (anti-ice) of continuous use. The system works by forcing a Glycol based deice fluid through micro-pores drilled in titanium leading edge strips. The fluid is pushed by the airflow back over the wing providing superior deice protection over the majority of the wing surface.

granted not every plane out there has this system. Hence why I said:

Some modern planes

I have a friend that is a pilot and he told me that rarely do they use just hot water and anti-freeze, more often than not they use a glycol mixture of some sort or another.(which I guess you could call anti-freeze, but I wouldn't normaly consider calling it that) Anyway I didn't mean to start a fight or anything and you're right many planes do use heaters as a way to prevent/disapte ice. Also planes use inflatable rubber boots that expand to break the ice off the wings. Currently people are researching electro-static something or others that help prevent icing from ever happening in the first place. (just to cover all the deicing methods)

[Mapraputa Is]

My Aeroflop

Jeroen, it's "Aeroflot", not "Aeroflop". "Aero" means "air" and "flot" means "fleet". There is no such word as "flop" in Russian.

HTH

[Jim Yingst]

I believe Jeroen knows that, and is being intentionally insulting again. :roll: It's getting old.
[ July 28, 2004: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]