Heroes

[Max Habibi]

Anyone watching it?

Personally, I'm starting to be of the theory that Peter is Syler.

[Jim Yingst]

I've been enjoying this show quite a bit. Gotta love those surprise endings. And Hiro is such fun, comic geek that he is. Now it they'd just drop that insipid "save the cheerleader" mantra.

[Max]: Personally, I'm starting to be of the theory that Peter is Syler.

Based, I guess, on Sylar apparently having an assortment of powers, and Peter being a power mimic (apparently)? Could be, I suppose. I imagine he could give the others quite a fight if he were to take on a group of them at once, were he so inclined. An other reasons I'm overlooking? Peter seems to me to be pretty sincere - so unless he's also managed to mimic Niki's "Mrs. Hyde" persona... hm, that actually might make some sense. Except Peter seems to need proximity to mimic powers, and so far Peter and Niki haven't been anywhere near each other. Will be interesting to see what happens when they do meet up though.

Another thing, if Peter is Sylar, wouldn't future-Hiro have known that? In which case it seems a bit odd that he'd go straight to Peter of all people.

Hm, what if sometime in the future, Peter manages to permanently absorb powers from both Niki and Hiro, as well as others? Then he might permantently become bad, and be able to travel back in time too. Future-Hiro could still regard present-Peter as a friend, despite what he becomes later. Hurm.

Me, I'm guessing Sylar is actually Eden, Prof. Suresh's cute neighbor. Just because (a) she looks like the last person you'd imagine for it, and (b) she was in extensive contact with the elder Suresh prior to his death, and is now keeping a close eye on his son's activities. And I don't think we know anything about her other than what she herself has told Mohinder. Convenient...

[Jim Yingst]

Interestingly, IMDB lists a fairly well known actor as playing "Paul Sylar" in upcoming episodes. Could be Paul is just a relative of the Sylar we know of. Or, could be that Sylar's powers include shapechanging - in which case, heck, we could both be right in our previous theories. Or the IMDB info could be wrong. Or maybe we're just way off base, and Sylar is in fact this other guy, Paul Sylar.

Addtional browsing on IMDB boards reveals a bunch of people already talking about the possibility Sylar is a future Peter with Niki's alter-personality and Hiro's time travel. All right. The theory does seem to have some legs. I don't really buy it in my gut though, not sure why.
[ October 26, 2006: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

[Stan James]

I'm enjoying it thoroughly, not spending much time trying to 2nd guess it, though. My favorite image so far is Nathan landing in the diner parking lot. The best "something I've never seen anywhere else" was waking up on the autopsy table. Yick.

Tangent off topic: Another hero named Hiro.

[Gregg Bolinger]

I've always just assumed Claire's step dad was Sylar. Interesting theory about Peter, though I don't think he is Sylar. I just think he is more of a Rogue type of character.

I like the show. The only thing annoying is how little information you get each episode. But I'm assuming that's the point, to get you to watch the next week.

[Max Habibi]

Hm, what if sometime in the future, Peter manages to permanently absorb powers from both Niki and Hiro, as well as others? Then he might permanently become bad, and be able to travel back in time too. Future-Hiro could still regard present-Peter as a friend, despite what he becomes later. Hurm.

Actually, this is exactly what I was thinking.

I'm postulating that Proximity to the brain's of other meta is what trigger's Peter's powers: I'm further postulating that consuming those brains makes the absorbation of those powers longer lasting and/or permanent. Perhaps Peter is forced, in the future, to consume the brains of other as a necessity of absolutely-require- power[much as the artist is forced to get high in order to predict the future: maybe a bit of foreshadowing?]. He them becomes addicted, or temporality crazy, or whatever, travels in time to set things right, etc.

Or maybe not.

Actually, I had never considered the cute neighbor girl being Sylar. I think I really like that idea. I just hope this series doesn't take a storytelling nosedive, like Lost did.
[ October 26, 2006: Message edited by: Max Habibi ]

[Aj Mathia]

Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Interestingly, IMDB lists a fairly well known actor as playing "Paul Sylar" in upcoming episodes.

Err Party Pooper (just kidding)
Well guess it was my fault to click on the link
Peter/Eden Hmmm I think i will like Heroes even more now.
Isn't Hiro the cutest.

[Jason Cox]

He'd make a great bad guy. That seems too good to be true.

I kind of figured Sylar was the man on the street that was mumbling "They're all around us and no one notices" that walked past Nathan and Mohinder.

I'm still trying to figure out of Mr. Bennett is really a bad guy. He does act sinister.

I was pretty sure, even before looking at IMDB, that Peter is not Sylar. The last episode seem to confirm it as Peter is shown in Isaac's paintings at Claire's school wearing completely different clothes than Sylar who is also shown at Claire's school.

I absolutely love Hiro though. His enthusiasm and naivete are a very endearing combination.

[Kai Witte]

hello,

I am not convinced that this is going to become a good show yet. It is full of cheap pointers towards the morale of the story:

When the cheerleader first tries to talk with her father about her special ability he answers with a comment like that she sure were special, like a parent would say to any child.

The stripper permanently talks about her other self in a way that would also fit to a normal person, for example when she first meets her Japanese customer in real life. Something like: "That girl is not me." Just an example, she talks like that permanently.

Several more babbling about what we can do when we believe in ourselves and that everyone has something he can do which nobody else can.

It seems to me like there are 500 - 600 pointers like that, and it gets annoying. It is like a hint in a book for children, only that these hints are produced for retarded children.

Due to the restrictive JavaRanch rules I have to omit my conclusions for the typical viewer, although I am one of them.

Anyway, still one of the best shows we have these days.

Kai

[Max Habibi]

Originally posted by Jason Cox:
He'd make a great bad guy. That seems too good to be true.

I was pretty sure, even before looking at IMDB, that Peter is not Sylar. The last episode seem to confirm it as Peter is shown in Isaac's paintings at Claire's school wearing completely different clothes than Sylar who is also shown at Claire's school.

I absolutely love Hiro though. His enthusiasm and naivete are a very endearing combination.

Probably not: but just to be clear, I'm postulating that Sylar is Peter's future self, just as the cool-Hiro of the future was radically differently then current dork-Hiro.

[Jeanne Boyarsky]

Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
I like the show. The only thing annoying is how little information you get each episode. But I'm assuming that's the point, to get you to watch the next week.

Same here. Although there is no shortage of information (or at least spec) on the web. I didn't know until last week how much there was on the official site let alone the spoiler boards (9th wonders)

[Jim Yingst]

[Gregg]: I've always just assumed Claire's step dad was Sylar.

I think he's too obvious a bad guy - making him be Sylar doesn't seem that interesting to me. More interesting, I think, would be for him to not be a cut-and-dried bad guy, but someone more ambiguous, maybe working for the government. I'm imagining him as someone like Gyrich, sometimes opposing the "good guys", sometimes helping them, usually just using them, depending on how that fits his own agenda.

[Gregg]: Interesting theory about Peter, though I don't think he is Sylar. I just think he is more of a Rogue type of character.

Something I'm not clear on right now - when he absorbs/mimics a power, does the absorbee lose the power temporarily? Or do they retain it? Thus far I don't think we've seen both characters able to use the same power simultaneously, but that could well be because none of the characters really know what they're doing yet. Or maybe I'm forgetting a scene which establishes this more clearly. If not, I imagine we'll learn more soon.

[Gregg]: The only thing annoying is how little information you get each episode.

Eh, I'm comfortable with the pace so far. A lot of things should be unknown to us at this point - that's a big part of the fun, for me. It's difficult to sustain this sort of thing over an extended period of time though - they need to balance between revealing answers to previous mysteries, and introducing new ones to keep us wondering. Hopefully without making too much of a convoluted mess of things as the series goes on over many seasons. (X-Files, anyone?) We'll see. I'm definitely enjoying it so far though.

[Max Habibi]

Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Something I'm not clear on right now - when he absorbs/mimics a power, does the absorbee lose the power temporarily?

I think so: remember, Peter's brother failed to catch him[{Peter] when Peter jumped off the building: but just days later[in continuity time], he was able to fly like a jet: that's fairly inconsistent power levels, or a dampened power.

Also, when Peter was painting the future in the last episode, the artist wasn't able to 'see' it.

Not definitive, I agree, but an indication.

[Jeanne Boyarsky]

I was under the impression that Peter's power is mimicry not absorption.

For example, when Hiro goes back to Peter on the subway, this could be explained as both of them using Hiro's power at the same time. Normally when Hiro stops time, he is the only one who could move. When he went back to the subway, Peter could move. Maybe because he was using Hiro's ability to move (or immunity from the time effects.) There is an alternate explanation that Hiro's power grows to explicitly unfreeze Peter of course.

Originally posted by Max Habibi:
I think so: remember, Peter's brother failed to catch him[{Peter] when Peter jumped off the building: but just days later[in continuity time], he was able to fly like a jet: that's fairly inconsistent power levels, or a dampened power..

Didn't they both fly together? My memory is fuzzy on this. I remember Nathan saying "we both flew" though.

Also, when Peter was painting the future in the last episode, the artist wasn't able to 'see' it.

The artist also believes he can only see the future when high. He couldn't paint the future before Peter arrived too. It's not that it stopped working the moment Peter came by.

[Jim Yingst]

[Jeanne]: There is an alternate explanation that Hiro's power grows to explicitly unfreeze Peter of course.

Yeah, we've already seen Hiro intentionally unfreeze objects, e.g. the roulette ball, and the unbalanced wine glass. Also, implicitly, air molecules, though they've never really mentioned that. I would've liked it if Hiro had had trouble breathing the first time he did the time freeze stunt. Until he concentrated a bit more and freed up some surrounding air. Ah well - minor point.

As I recall though, Peter was able to move freely while his surroundings were frozen, before Hiro appeared. Suggesting it was his own power that allowed him to move freely. Or not - Hiro was specifically seeking Peter out to talk to him, and he could have simply unfrozen Peter before appearing.

[Jeanne]: Didn't they both fly together?

According to Nathan: "Alright! You want the truth? We both flew, Pete. I caught you and I lost control. You were too heavy. We both started falling to the ground and just before we�just before we hit�you flew."

From this I would say it's certainly possible that Nathan lost control because Peter's power took Nathan's flight from him. But...

[Max]: I think so: remember, Peter's brother failed to catch him[{Peter] when Peter jumped off the building: but just days later[in continuity time], he was able to fly like a jet: that's fairly inconsistent power levels, or a dampened power..

Nathan didn't fail to catch Peter; he failed to keep control after that. Doesn't seem at all like an inconsistent power level considering it was the first time Nathan had ever flown, and he also had an extra load.

I think both possibilities are eqully lkely at this point.

Regarding Peter and Isaac (the artist), I agree with Jeanne completely. Isaac's got the least control of his power of any of them, it seems.

Interestingly, with both these examples, it seems that (if we accept the hypothesis that Peter mimis rather than absorbs) Peter may have more control over his borrowed powers than the power owners themselves do.

[Gregg Bolinger]

Good show last night. It was nice to get some more glimpses into Niki's "power". I'm not convinced she is Sylar as they seem to be trying to make you believe. You have to feel bad for Micah though. I wonder if they will come out with him having some power in the future? Seems logical that he would given both his parents do.

[Mark Fletcher]

"Heroes" is "The 4400" for people who are too stingy / cant afford cable.

I passed on this one... might pick up Jericho yet.

And of course, Battlestar Galactica reigns frakin supreme

[Jessica Sant]

boo on Battlestar. My husband loves it, I don't know why. I hate it. Thank goodness for DVR.

We both agree on Heroes though. We've watched every episode so far. I like it.

The 4400 was good the first two seasons, then I lost interest.

I'm hoping Heroes keeps it up. I'm liking it so far.

[Jim Yingst]

Another good episode last night. I feel somewhat vindicated in being suspicious of Eden, though I now doubt she's Sylar. And I doubt Niki's Sylar, or Peter, or Mr. Bennet. Though the future-Peter-with-Niki's-personality theory is probably the strongest contender among those four. But I think it's probably best for the story to have it be a separate character. Otherwise I think the storyline will get too convoluted with alternate timelines and crap. Longtime X-Men readers know what I'm talking about.

I note that the previously-mentioned well-known actor did not appear last night as Paul Sylar (unless I missed something). Despite the fact that this was the first episode IMDB had him listed as. Well, it's not the first time IMDB had bad data. It could be that he will appear, but not yet. Or it could be the rumor was utterly baseless. Probably best to ignore the rumor for now.

I don't really understand the need to slam other shows because a person likes one show better. (Though I've probably been known to do it myself now and then, I suppose.) Battlestar Galactica is my favorite among current TV shows, but frankly it would be way too dark & depressing if that were the only thing I watched. So Heroes and Doctor Who make excellent supplements. (I watch other stuff too, but those are my top three. Oh, The Office should be in there too somewhere, making it top four, but since it's not SF we'll move on...)

I've never seen The 4400, though I do have cable, thank you. Never heard much about it. I remember Jessica talking enthusiastically about it awhile back, but then, she dislikes BG, so how much faith can I put in her opinion? Seriously, you guys seemed a bit lukewarm about this previously. If you're giving it a solid thumbs up now, I'll probably check it out. I'll ignore Mr. Fletcher's comments about Heroes for now since it doesn't sound like he actually watched it anyway.
[ October 31, 2006: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

[Jessica Sant]

yes, well the big reason I'm vocal about my dislike of BG, is because I know it bugs my husband and some other geeky friends of mine -- so its fun for me

Definitely check out the first two seasons of The 4400. I can't speak to the others, but I liked the first two. Alias is another great series. I watched the first four seasons, I need to watch the last one when it comes out on DVD (if it hasn't already).

[Henry Wong]

yes, well the big reason I'm vocal about my dislike of BG, is because I know it bugs my husband and some other geeky friends of mine -- so its fun for me

BSG is actually an interesting show... I don't think that there are any other shows (On American and European TV) where the good guys are actually the suicide bombers.

Henry

[Jim Yingst]

[Jess]: yes, well the big reason I'm vocal about my dislike of BG, is because I know it bugs my husband and some other geeky friends of mine -- so its fun for me

All right, that's an acceptable excuse.

Alias was a fun series. It had its ups and downs over the years, but I thought they did pretty well overall. Though many other long-time fans seemed to do nothing but gripe and moan about the later seasons. Oh well.

[Mark Fletcher]

*Throws up arms* Ok, the BSG comment was uncalled for... I was just trying to get a rise out of people. Looked like it worked. Still stand by what I said however

Jim's right. I havent actually watched any of "Heroes" yet. For a good reason. Traditionally, with the noteable exceptions of the "Star Trek" franchise, "Buffy" etc, Sci Fi shows havent fared well on network television.

For instance, consider "Firefly". Great show, still got cancelled however. Or how about last years "Invasion", "Surface" and "Threshold", all cancelled? At this point, Im now of the opinion that Im not going to go anywhere near these new shows until theyre renewed.

The logic is skewed I admit. How is a show going to ever get renewed if nobody watches it? But then I can justify this by saying that I dont want to invest hours of my time in these shows, only to see them get cancelled.

If "Heroes" gets renewed for a second season I may pick it up. Similarly for "Jericho".

"The 4400" - yup, it lagged at the beginning of the third season but picked up towards the end. If it shows up on repeats, Id suggest watching it; season four looks like it will be pretty good.

[Gregg Bolinger]

I am beginning to think that maybe Syler isn't a single person, or if he/she is, then he/she isn't the one actually doing the slaughters. Maybe Syler is a group of "evolved" people. Or there is a group doing things in Syler's name to pay respect. Opinions?

(just thought I'd try to get this thread back on topic a bit)

[Jim Yingst]

[Fletch]: At this point, Im now of the opinion that Im not going to go anywhere near these new shows until theyre renewed.

I hear you; can't really argue (other than with the points you already acknowledged). I was a fan of all the shows you mentioned, except Threshold which lost my interest pretty quickly. I suppose with the rise of DVD sales, networks may pay less attention to whether they have an instant hit, and more attention to long-term prospects. I hope. It's certainly tiresome to get hooked on a good series and see it cut off like that. Though for my part, I got enough enjoyment from those series that they were worth watching even though they were cut off too soon.

I've added the 4400 to my Netflix queue. Sometime in the next couple years, I'll get to it.

[Gregg]: Maybe Syler is a group of "evolved" people. Or there is a group doing things in Syler's name to pay respect. Opinions?

Could be, I suppose. Possibilities for Syler seem wide open at this point. It's tempting to tie him in to characters we've already seen, but there's also no reason he can't just be a new character we haven't seen clearly yet, with some nasty set of powers of his/her own. Is there anything you see that particularly suggests that Sylar could be a group? We've already got Mr. Bennet as a character who has multiple other characters working as his agents, at least one of whom has powers of his own. And chances are good that Eden has some power too, whether or not she has any connection to Sylar. So that's one group of powered characters to oppose the "heroes". Sylar could be another group, or could be a single very powerful character. Either is possible, but I'd pick the latter for variety, right now.

[Maureen Augustus]

This whole discussion is making me think I might be the only one left who still watches "Lost". Yay for the return of the "Black Smoke Monster"! I've missed him. I won't tell you who hekilled last night in case anyone here is the type that just watches that show all at once on DVD.

OK, back on topic: For some reason, I was getting the impression that D.L. is Sylar, but I don't have any evidence behind it. Just a hunch, really.

[Gregg Bolinger]

Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
You have to feel bad for Micah though. I wonder if they will come out with him having some power in the future? Seems logical that he would given both his parents do.

Well, go figure. Overall kind of a weak episode though.

[Jim Yingst]

[Gregg]: Overall kind of a weak episode though.

Relatively, I suppose, but still watchable. I thought it was interesting that Micah seemed unsurprised that the woman speaking with his Mom's voice wasn't really his mom. Well, he was already described as the smartest kid in the whole world. So now he has at least two powers.

[Jim Yingst]

Oh and Maureen, you're not the only one who still watches Lost. It's no longer at the top of my list, but I still enjoy it. Go, Black Smoke Monster! Except we don't want to lose too much of the cast that way - especially the cool ones. Sniff.
[ November 06, 2006: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

[Gregg Bolinger]

Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
[Gregg]: Overall kind of a weak episode though.

Relatively, I suppose, but still watchable. I thought it was interesting that Micah seemed unsurprised that the woman speaking with his Mom's voice wasn't really his mom. Well, he was already described as the smartest kid in the whole world. So now he has at least two powers.

I think Micah is a lot more clued in than the show has let on so far. He mentioned knowing how his mom was making money on the internet, and what she was going to do in Las Vegas. He's obviously some sort of technopath (to steal a term from Sky High) but I think it is probably something a bit more than that.

Hey, maybe Micah is Syler. Just kidding.

[Maureen Augustus]

Did you notice that Micah didn't seem all that freaked out by the fact that Hiro stopped time and that the scene they were experiencing was already in a comic book? It was like he and Hiro were having a normal chat about the weather...well, as normal a chat as anyone can have with Hiro anyway.

I like that he used his powers to fix the phone AND steal a call at the same time.

Oh, and as far as I'm concerned, Jim...Black Smoke Monster can get rid of everyone except Locke, Hurley, Rose & Bernard, Sun & Jin, Saeed, Desmond and Rousseau. Sawyer and Kate can go first. Is it wrong that I like the Others better than the good guys?
[ November 07, 2006: Message edited by: Maureen Augustus ]

[Jim Yingst]

[Maureen]: Oh, and as far as I'm concerned, Jim...Black Smoke Monster can get rid of everyone except Locke, Hurley, Rose & Bernard, Sun & Jin, Saeed, Desmond and Rousseau. Sawyer and Kate can go first. Is it wrong that I like the Others better than the good guys?

Well, I at least like Juliet better than the regular castaways. But that may be for different reasons. I pretty much agree with your list of who to keep - except Charlie recently returned to form, I think, as someone more likeable than he'd been for most all of last season. I have no problem with Claire really, but she doesn't really do much, does she? To be fair, having a newborn child does limit her options as far as trekking around the island. I am generally tired of Sawyer, Kate, and Jack. Though I am intrigued to see how Jack will deal with the situation he's being put in, operating on Henry.

[Roger Graff]

My theory is that the entire show is the daydream of the cheerleader ..... and that Max finally got a TV.

[Jason Menard]

Well after last night, at least we now know where the nuclear explosion comes from.

Any theories on the tatoos/sigils on the characters? Have we seen two different ones now? Niki and her husband have the same one and the cop and nuclear dude have the same one, right? If they remain paired off like that it oould have some significance, but the mind erasing dude was wearing a necklace with the same tat that Niki and hubby have so I'm not sure on that one.

[Jim Yingst]

[Jason]: Well after last night, at least we now know where the nuclear explosion comes from.

I don't know about that. Sure, it could be him, but that seems far from certain. My feeling is that his saying the he might blow up the city was just a little too convenient a bit of dialog. I'm guessing it's a red herring.

[Dan Bizman]

Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
I've always just assumed Claire's step dad was Sylar. Interesting theory about Peter, though I don't think he is Sylar. I just think he is more of a Rogue type of character.

I like the show. The only thing annoying is how little information you get each episode. But I'm assuming that's the point, to get you to watch the next week.

No, yikes! Everyone's comic-book history is disappearing!

Peter is an exact copy of the Mimic, from the original "Uncanny X-Men" series in the 1960's. The Mimic could take on any mutant's superpowers but only while he was in close proximity to them. And if he was near multiple mutants, he could take on all their powers at once. UNLIKE Rogue, he did not need to touch them and they retained their powers. He did not take the powers away from them. Peter, on Heroes, is the same.

I also don't think Sylar is Peter. They've already shown him on screen three times and he doesn't look anything like Peter and he also has shown that he has superpowers even when no superhero is around (like when he stopped the FBI agent before the mind-reader appeared). And even when the mind-reader appeared, he ended up having the ability to fly upwards - a power no one else in the room had.

I think right now, the real question is why did they let the mind-reader go after erasing his memory and obviously increasing his ability to read minds. What do they think will happen with him?

[Gregg Bolinger]

Good episode last night. It appears that Clair's dad might be gathering up people to help fight Sylar. Marking/tagging them so they are recognizable perhaps? Or, he is working for the government and marking them for that purpose.

What seemed a bit inaccurate is when the cop was talking to nuclear man and they were talking about when they noticed their powers. The cop noticed his before he was abducted. But last night he implied that Clair's dad changed them and/or gave them their powers. That confused me.

I am excited for next week. Seems to really be coming together now. I wonder, though, how they are going to end this season. And obviously am wondering if there is going to be a season 2.

[Aj Mathia]

Did anyone notice Micah's dads hand when he saved the lady in the burning car.
His hand as well as his bracelet passed through the car window.

[Jessica Sant]

Sulu from Star Trek is going to join Heroes as Hiro Nakamura's dad.

[Guy Allard]

Originally posted by Jessica Sant:
Sulu from Star Trek is going to join Heroes as Hiro Nakamura's dad.

Yes. To see an amusing disucssion, use:
this

Guy