• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Tim Cooke
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Bear Bibeault
Sheriffs:
  • Knute Snortum
  • paul wheaton
  • Devaka Cooray
Saloon Keepers:
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Ron McLeod
  • Piet Souris
  • Ganesh Patekar
Bartenders:
  • Tim Holloway
  • Carey Brown
  • salvin francis

does your bus take paper money?

 
author & internet detective
Posts: 39433
768
Eclipse IDE VI Editor Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Alan's thread got me thinking about different bus systems. Does your bus take paper money? I live in the only city I've ever visited that requires you to pay in coins to use cash on the bus. It's $2 for a local bus and $5 for an express bus - 8 or 20 coins! (Our subways and trains do accept paper bills.)

Yesterday, and a few times before, I've e-mailed another city's transit authority asking if they take dollar bills. After all, who wants to pack a whole pile of quarters if they aren't needed. Not only do they say yes, but they sound surprised that any place would NOT take dollar bills on the bus.

I'm interested in knowing if where you live takes paper money - any country or city - and if not, where it is and how many coins it takes to pay for a fare. Obviously this question doesn't apply if the bus fare is less than the maximum denomination of coin. For example, a bus costing 2 euros can be paid for with a single coin; so it isn't a big deal to require payment in coins.
 
Sheriff
Posts: 24632
56
Eclipse IDE Firefox Browser MySQL Database
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Our buses (Vancouver, Canada) don't take paper money. But on the other hand our smallest paper money is the $5 bill (we have $1 and $2 coins) and the regular local fare is about $2.50, so it doesn't really matter.
[ March 01, 2008: Message edited by: Paul Clapham ]
 
Wanderer
Posts: 18671
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Buses in the Denver area accept paper money as well as coins, tokens, and various passes.
 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 624
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
There are a variety of ways to pay on a bus in Brisbane:

1) Any combination of coins or notes (average fare is around $3 - with $5 being our smallest note) - pay the driver.

2) Buy a "10 trip ticket" (slightly discounted fare for fixed zone length journeys) from a newsagent which you feed into a machine on the bus and it stamps time & route number on it...

3) Have a valid ticket from another bus, train or ferry (wave the ticket at the driver and he has to read it and determine whether or not it makes sense for you to have transferred onto his bus)

4) Newly implemented "proximity swipe card" system where you swipe a card past a reader when you get on and off buses and the system calculates the correct fare and deucts it from your prepaid balance (which can be topped up online). This system is fast and is definately the best way to get people on to buses quickly - but unfortunately the implementation has been very buggy with lots of people being over charged (fare calculation algorithms around various transfer combinations are obviously too complex) and card readers not working (they rely on GPS systems on the buses which frequently cant get lock) - Consequently the public has not embraced the system and without large uptake of the system it WONT make the efficiency improvments it was designed to!
 
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Posts: 39433
768
Eclipse IDE VI Editor Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
For what it's worth, our buses do take coins and metrocards (like a bus debit card.) Before metrocards, they took tokens. For residents, it's rare to pay in cash. I was thinking more about how tourist unfriendly our bus system is compared to most cities. Or if you take a bus that you don't usually take. In an emergency, I would need to take an express bus. My regular metrocard doesn't work on the express and you can't count on buying one in an emergency. This means I need to have $5 in quarters available for this.

Alan: We had lots of bugs when the metrocard was introduced. They were good about refunding money though and the bugs did go away (mostly.) Brisbane's system sounds interesting. It's the first one I've heard of that has zone/distance pricing on buses. I've seen it on the subway/train. On buses, I've only seen payment on entry.

Passes are another interesting point of variation - whether you swipe it, tap it or wave it at the driver.
 
Leverager of our synergies
Posts: 10065
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Portland, OR uses fare zones too.
 
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Posts: 39433
768
Eclipse IDE VI Editor Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Map,
Do they charge zones based on where the bus travels or where you are actually going? It sounds like the former while Alan's sounds like the later. Another interesting point of variation.

I've also noticed some cities like Cleveland and Portland include a page on how to ride the bus. Cleveland even has a step "Have a seat, stare out the window, daydream, sleep, read, etc." I like the websites for these cities! They are clear and very user friendly.
 
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Posts: 10065
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jeanne: Do they charge zones based on where the bus travels or where you are actually going?

Basically you charge yourself. When you board the bus, you give driver the money and say "one zone", or "all zones", depending on where you are going. The question to ask is: what prevents you from paying for one zone and then traveling in all three? The answer is, basically nothing.

To add to your collection: In San Francisco (MUNI) you pay a fixed sum and can go anywhere and re-board any bus within two hours. Officially; in practice a driver can give you a ticket good for two, or three, or seven hours, depending, probably, on his mood. I am not sure.

The bus system to the sought from San Francisco (SamTrans) is the only one I know where you have to pay every time you board a bus (no transfer tickets). No distance restrictions apply, though, and for the same money you can go one stop, or all the way down to Palo Alto!
[ March 02, 2008: Message edited by: Mapraputa Is ]
 
Rancher
Posts: 43011
76
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

The question to ask is: what prevents you from paying for one zone and then traveling in all three? The answer is, basically nothing.


Here in Berlin we have two fare levels - up to six bus stops, and unlimited (which is roughly twice the price). Every so often public transport personnel conducts a ticket check of all riders; but it's rare on the bus. (As opposed to the subway, where you'll have that happen to you every month.)

It's good to hear that buses in NYC now accept MetroCard. I gave up on buses there when you had to have coins or tokens - which, as a visitor, I never had. (Not that I much felt the need to use the bus there, as I stayed almost exclusively in Manhattan, and the subway served me nicely.)

I think the Boston bus system is (or used to be) coins only, too. The subway has a token system, but the bus fares are different, so unless you are prepared to lose a quarter or so for using a subway token on a bus, you had to use coins.
 
author
Posts: 23838
141
jQuery Eclipse IDE Firefox Browser VI Editor C++ Chrome Java Linux Windows
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

It's good to hear that buses in NYC now accept MetroCard. I gave up on buses there when you had to have coins or tokens - which, as a visitor, I never had. (Not that I much felt the need to use the bus there, as I stayed almost exclusively in Manhattan, and the subway served me nicely.)



To be fair, Metrocards on buses existed for about 10 years now. Granted, subways had Metrocards for years eariler, but Metrocards on buses is not exactly a new thing...

Also, because of the Metrocard... those stupid bus transfer slips are gone. Heck, you can even transfer between bus and subways for free.


I totally agree about visitors and buses. They don't seem to like it. When I have a friend visit, they fall into two categories -- ones that will take a subway, and ones that won't (taxi for everything). I never had a friend visit that like buses.

Henry
 
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Posts: 18671
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
As for Jeanne's original question which Map seems to be evading , as I recall the buses in San Francisco do allow you to use paper bills. Unless that's changed in the last six years or so. Also while I'm at it, buses in Phoenix and Tucson did too, but that information is much older. I doubt it's changed, however.

Still, the idea of buses that disallow paper bills is a bit... odd. I suppose bills can slow down the line a bit compared to coins, as it's always easy to just toss the correct change into the counting machine, but with bills you have to insert them into a slot correctly, and if the bill is wrinkled that may take several attempts, annoying the people behind you.
 
author and jackaroo
Posts: 12199
280
Mac IntelliJ IDE Firefox Browser Oracle C++ Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here in Seattle, WA, USA, we have:
  • Real money, however exact change must be provided. All money (notes or coins) go into a locked box, so there is no way for the driver to provide change. If all you have is a $20 note, and the fare is $1.50, then you have just lost $18.50.


  • Which could lead to another tangential question: do bus drivers still provide change anywhere? When I first worked in Melbourne, Australia the bus drivers used to give change all the time.

  • Bus passes. There are various types of passes for different denominations for different lengths of time. You can purchase them for yourself, or your employer might purchase them, or (I think) there are some for certain pensions.


  • Proximity swipe systems. I do not know how widespread these are, since I only ever see them on certain bus routes in the city. Certainly the buses I usually take do not use them.

  • Just to confuse visitors, all buses are free within the center of the city. If part of your trip will be outside the free zone, then it depends on your origin: if you are leaving the city you will pay when you get off. If you are heading towards the city you will pay when you get on.

    Regards, Andrew
     
    Jim Yingst
    Wanderer
    Posts: 18671
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Yeah, requiring exact change seems to be pretty common for buses in the US - at least it applies to all the cities I've used buses.
     
    Jeanne Boyarsky
    author & internet detective
    Posts: 39433
    768
    Eclipse IDE VI Editor Java
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Map: So it's the honor system. I've never seen that on a bus. I have seen it on trains/trolleys in a couple cities (Dallas and San Diego spring to mind.) I was always amazed that everyone pays. It seems the threat of a fine is enough to get the vast majority of people. I always have an unlimited pass in these cities, so it's a moot point for me.

    Jim: I agree that disallowing paper money on the bus is odd. That's why I started this question. To see if we were odd alone . I don't think there was any analysis done about slowing up the line. I think it was more that buses only took coins when the fare was 10 cents and nobody ever found a reason or money to upgrade the system.

    Andrew: I've never seen a bus driver give change.
     
    Alan Wanwierd
    Ranch Hand
    Posts: 624
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Our bus drivers do give change - but if you do hand them a $50 bill for a $3 fare they will grumble and groan and sometimes tell you to sit down until they've collected enough fares to have sufficient change for you!

    Interesting that you guys mention "coin counting machines" - Our money counting machines on buses also do the driving (and have names like "Dave" or "Bruce") - and seem to find coins no easier to count than paper....

    The zonal swipe system here in Brisbane will be OK - they just need to tweak the paramters a bit (like making it cheaper than cash fares so people actually use it)

    Also at the moment the penalty fare for not "swiping off" the bus is way too
    low: The system needs to know where you got on AND off the bus so that it can determine the correct fare to deduct from your balance. If you dont 'swipe off' the "penalty" is $3. This is a bit silly since fares vary from $1 to $5 meaning if you do a long journey the fine is cheaper than the fare!!!

    The same system works on trains and ferries too (including transfers between the three since the zonal maps are the same for all forms of transport) only the penalty for not swiping off a train is $5. The highest metropolitan train fare covered by the system is a $15 journey from Gold Coast to Brisbane - Saving you $10 each time if you use the system incorrectly !!
     
    straws are for suckers. tiny ads are for attractive people.
    Java file APIs (DOC, XLS, PDF, and many more)
    https://products.aspose.com/total/java
    • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
    • New Topic
    Boost this thread!