Bear Bibeault wrote:TIOBE
Jay Orsaw wrote:So sorry if this has been posted a billion times in the past, but I'm curious where we stand? I've searched and I've seen topics of Java vs C#, etc.
Pat Farrell wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote:So sorry if this has been posted a billion times in the past, but I'm curious where we stand? I've searched and I've seen topics of Java vs C#, etc.
Why do you care? Its in the top ten today. It won't be in ten years. It will probably be like Cobol, in use 20, 30, or even 40 years longer than anyone thought possible.
It is possible that some language using the Java name will be popular in a decade, but only if it changes in ways that will fundamentally break existing code. Java has far too many warts and kludges to be used with its current incremental approach. See Generics as an example, something that takes a 500 page FAQ to explain. Nothing in a language should take 500 pages. A good language can be described in maybe 50 pages.
I've kept my Java In a Nutshell books from when I started writing Java in the '90s. In three editions, the book has tripled in size. The book is now impossible, nothing as complex as Java can be put in a nutshell.
Jay Orsaw wrote: I agree that it is very complex, but why is that a bad thing? Being able to have a ton of powerful libraries is very important. Also just because a book gets bigger, again, isnt' a bad thing.. It's good to see a language expand, but I understand that it's a big language, and it might be able to be done faster in other languages, with less code, which is also understandable... We all have our own opinions though...
Pat Farrell wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote: I agree that it is very complex, but why is that a bad thing? Being able to have a ton of powerful libraries is very important. Also just because a book gets bigger, again, isnt' a bad thing.. It's good to see a language expand, but I understand that it's a big language, and it might be able to be done faster in other languages, with less code, which is also understandable... We all have our own opinions though...
generics were hacked onto the language and are a disaster. Its too complex for typical programmers to understand. Just look at the questions here on the Ranch, where people are smarter than the average cowpoke.
The issue with tons of libraries is not that they are bad because there are a lot of them. They are bad because each is different, has different calling conventions, ways to handle callbacks, amount of multi-threading support, etc.
Lots of libraries that are all orthogonal and well integrated and consistent is great. That is not what Java has.
Jay Orsaw wrote:Yeah I agree, generics are useful, but they are a pain, and like you said there is a lot of questions about them....
I agree with this also about the classes, everything is set up differently though, which can be pain...
Java Newbie with 72% in OCJP/SCJP - Super Confused Jobless Programmer.
I am a "newbie" too. Please verify my answers before you accept them.
Pat Farrell wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote:Yeah I agree, generics are useful, but they are a pain, and like you said there is a lot of questions about them....
I agree with this also about the classes, everything is set up differently though, which can be pain...
When you want to have a large, professional software development team, you must do everything you can to reduce or eliminate pain. The expensive resource is the software engineers. How long it takes for them to do a job is directly related to "pain". The more pain, the longer and more expensive it is. The longer it takes them to learn how to work around pain, the more it costs, etc.
I have some issues with Java the language (generics, parallel processing) but most of my issues are the pain that the huge variety of overlapping and incompatible libraries cause when you try to solve problems that Java the language doesn't address.
I have literally spent months in meetings where folks argue whether a project should use Hibernate or not. Talk about pain. During all that time, we were not writing code to solve real problems.
Consider Paul's rocket mass heater. |