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ultra pasteurized milk

 
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I'm finding it harder to buy "regular" milk lately. Not impossible, but less convenient. Up until recently, I bought Farmland milk (which comes from New Jersey - one state away) and pledges not to use hormones in their cows. My supermarket discontinued selling Farmland milk. The brand they sell now instead is not rbST free. (I now buy milk at the drug store which still sells a brand that is rbST free.)

This happened months ago. I recently checked in the supermarket to see if this is still the case. It is. But not they have a fairly substantial organic milk section. I was thinking about whether to try one and noticed the expiration date was over a month away. That seemed odd so I read the label and saw it was "ultra pasteurized milk." From the little I've read on that, it sounds like they heat it more/faster and then "change" something to make it taste "normal" again.

I was somewhat taken aback by this because I thought organic food was "plainer" (and spoiled faster.) It seems like we are going to get to a trade off between rbST and ultra pasteurization.

I read that this type of milk is popular in Europe. Anybody have any experiences?

 
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Perhaps that's milk which has been subject to Ultra-high-temperature processing, commonly known as UHT milk? I recall buying it in South Africa when we were travelling around there, but that was several years ago and I don't remember anything about it.

However I'd recommend just buying a liter of the product, or a quart or whatever units you use, and form your own opinion. If you don't like it then you only invested a dollar or so to find that out, right?
 
Jeanne Boyarsky
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Paul,
Yes UHT milk. First, it is way more than dollar. This milk costs roughly double the other milk. More importantly, how it tastes isn't the only factor. I'm worried about health impacts. Buying it and tasting it is unlikely to help with that.

Plus, this is a future problem as I can still buy the milk I want at the drug store. It feels like a "vote with your wallet" issue.
 
Jeanne Boyarsky
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In answering Paul on why "just try it" wouldn't solve my problem, I realized I should post this at permies for that part of it. Did so
 
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Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I read that this type of milk is popular in Europe. Anybody have any experiences?


I think we're talking about two different kinds of milk. ESL milk has pretty much taken over from "traditional" fresh milk here, to the degree that it's hard to find that nowadays unless you buy directly from a farmer. ESL milk has been heated, but not ultra-highly so, and it's been filtered to remove bacteria. A respected consumer organization did comparison tests back then, but found no significant differences (or dangers). There's no big difference in taste to old-style fresh milk.

But since you're talking about UHT milk, that's been around for ages, but I wouldn't say it's particularly popular. That has a noticeably different taste, and I don't know anyone who would exclusively use that instead of fresh (or ESL) milk. Maybe if you know beforehand the liter (the only size widely available) will be open for weeks because you use so little. The only time I might buy it is when I know I need to take it where there is no refrigerator, like on a camping trip.
 
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A side stap, it wont help you Jeanne. But I have raw milk. Straight from the cow. I am not sure if that is a good thing or not. I go from home to work on the bicycle. I pass a farm house. At the farm I can buy raw milk. At the distributer it says the milk has to be heated to sixty degrees before it can be consumed, but I think nobody does that. It's rather fat, it is not processed at all, pure cow milk as the farmer gets it from his cows. I do it because I come passed there anyway, and I like the farmer, and in the summer to have some milk because I am hot and thirsty. I have done it for a year or so, never got sick, even with milk a few days old, never heated.
 
Paul Clapham
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Yes, I'm pretty sure that Jeanne can't buy raw milk in New York. But even where I live in British Columbia it's illegal for unpasteurized milk to be sold.

I expect it's possible to get raw milk if you know somebody who sells it, but they've cracked down on the practice since a few people died from listeriosis a few years back.
 
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Ulf Dittmer wrote:

Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I read that this type of milk is popular in Europe. Anybody have any experiences?


I think we're talking about two different kinds of milk. ESL milk has pretty much taken over from "traditional" fresh milk here, to the degree that it's hard to find that nowadays unless you buy directly from a farmer.


I hadn't heard of ESL (extended shelf life milk) until today. The milk company's website and wikipedia referenced Europe for ultra pasteurized milk. Incidentally, the milk cartoon said that it only lasts 7 days once open. I wonder if it isn't really UHT milk? They say it is, but that conflicts with other information.
 
Jan de Boer
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Paul Clapham wrote:I expect it's possible to get raw milk if you know somebody who sells it, but they've cracked down on the practice since a few people died from listeriosis a few years back.



Thanks for the warning Paul. I have looked it up and the official Dutch food department says this: The disease causes no symptoms or only a light flue like fever to healthy people. The symptoms can be worse for people with a very weak immune system like elderly, very young children and HIV infected. And since I did not even had a normal season flue for more than a year, I guess my immune system can take a bit of listeriosis from raw milk.

Addition:

The actual reason I buy this raw milk is because it bypasses the transport process. It is a stupid little piece of idealism. I think that if I support the local growing of food, by buying things close to my home. It is better for the environment, since my litre of milk does not have to be transported from Ouderkerk to Leiden to be processed, then transported to the retailer in Bodegraven, then transported to the supermarket in Amsterdam. It goes directly on my bike to my fridge, where it is consumed.

There are worse examples of this, like shrimps caught in the sea that borders our coast lines, that are transported to Spain to be processed, and then transported back again to your local supermarket a few kilometres away from where they originally caught the shrimps.

But maybe I am just a little weird, it probably won't change the world or make a new England.

(And sorry to Jeanne to make a bit of an off topic side step.)
 
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I like raw milk but it seems it is difficult to get it in US.
A few years ago I was talking to a friend of mine, who lives in South Carolina, about raw milk and he told me that it is legal to sell raw milk in South Carolina but illegal to even transport it in North Carolina. Since I was in Charlotte, NC, he said I would be taking a risk buying raw milk 10 miles south and taking it home. Apparently, all sale and transport of unpasteurized milk is illegal in NC and several other states because of risk of transmitting bacterial diseases.
 
Paul Clapham
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Jan de Boer wrote:I guess my immune system can take a bit of listeriosis from raw milk.



Yes, the people at the cheese factory where the listeriosis was coming from were horrified when they found out they were the cause. They had been eating their own cheese for years with no ill effects.
 
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Raw milk isn't too hard to find where I am. Some farms sell it to the local (private) supermarkets. I could go to a farm and buy some. But I live in a rural area, and I imagine in an urban area, it would be nearly impossible. And definitely not convenient.

I, too, have to make the decision between "organic/UHT" and "inorganic/not UHT." In CT we have "The Farmer's Cow" which is the best non-organic around here -- but I don't go through milk as quickly, so I find that the organic/uht suits me better because of the longer shelf life. If I'm making cheese/yogurt, it can't be made with UHT dairy.

I've also switched to grass fed beef, and I was considering grass fed dairy. Also something not conveniently sourced.

This looks like a good place to find "good" milk: http://www.realmilk.com/real-milk-finder/
 
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The one we buy here is organic, HTST (High Temperature, Short Time ) pasteurized ( and hence has a shorter shelf life relative to UP (Ultra Pasteurized)) and non rBST treated.

This is what their website has to say about pasteurization.

A few years back we used to drink milk ( non rBST and organic yes) of the cows from my dad's farm after manually straining it to remove cow tissues, adding a little water, boiling, and subsequent cooling it to room temperature and then again straining it to remove cream. We would never store ( refrigerated ) the milk for more than two days. My mum and brothers still drink their farm's milk.

 
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Paul Anilprem wrote:but illegal to even transport it in North Carolina.


Actually, it's legal to sell as long as it's labeled "not for human consumption", but most farmers don't want to do that because it draws attention to them from the health "authorities". It's so ridiculous in this country that the FDA is even raiding farms for selling raw milk. And you thought this was a free country? We're not even free to choose what milk we want to drink.

I'm trying to find a provider of raw goats milk for soap making and having a terrible time of it. I may have to buy my own goat!
 
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