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Is this sentence grammatically correct?

 
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"The speakers only need to be so loud as all the people in the room are able to hear."

If not, what is the right way?
 
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I'm not sure about the grammar, but I think the following reads easier: "The speakers only need to be loud enough so all the people in the room will be able to hear."
 
Paul Anilprem
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Stephan van Hulst wrote:I'm not sure about the grammar, but I think the following reads easier: "The speakers only need to be loud enough so all the people in the room will be able to hear."


Really? I am unable to pinpoint but something is definitely wrong with this sentence. Seems like an awkward combination of present indefinite and future.
 
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Paul Anilprem wrote:"The speakers only need to be so loud as all the people in the room are able to hear."
. . .

No, it is grammatically incorrect in the use of “so”.

The speakers only need to be as loud as all the people in the room are able to hear.

Stephan's suggestion is however an improvement, but I would remove so again.
The speakers only need to be loud enough that all the people in the room will be able to hear.

To get rid of your problem with tenses, one would usually say,
The speakers only need to be loud enough that all the people in the room can hear.
 
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Campbell Ritchie wrote:No, it is grammatically incorrect in the use of “so”.

The speakers only need to be as loud as all the people in the room are able to hear.



I also targeted the "so loud as" phrase as being wrong. However, I don't know why. Why is that phrase grammatically incorrect?

Henry
 
Paul Anilprem
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My understanding was that "as xxx as" implies that both the sides are comparable. For example, "Sears tower is as big as Empire State". But obviously, here, only speakers are loud, not the people.
Is this understanding incorrect?
 
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Paul Anilprem wrote:My understanding was that "as xxx as" implies that both the sides are comparable. For example, "Sears tower is as big as Empire State". But obviously, here, only speakers are loud, not the people.
Is this understanding incorrect?


No, you are correct. That's why I would not use this "as ... as ..." construction here. Instead I would say something like "the speakers only need to be loud enough for all the people in the room to (be able to) hear them".
 
Campbell Ritchie
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Where we seem to be converging on Stephans's suggestion.
 
Campbell Ritchie
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Paul Anilprem wrote: . . . only speakers are loud, not the people.
. . .

It is not the listeners you are comparing it with, but their ability to hear (=auditory threshold). Stephan's suggestion is still better.
 
Paul Anilprem
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Campbell Ritchie wrote:

Paul Anilprem wrote: . . . only speakers are loud, not the people.
. . .

It is not the listeners you are comparing it with, but their ability to hear (=auditory threshold). Stephan's suggestion is still better.



Not exactly. People are able to hear a sound even louder than what the speakers can produce. I certainly don't want the speakers to sound as loud as what people can hear. I am not really comparing but limiting.
 
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How about: "The speakers should be loud enough to be clearly audible throughout the room, no louder."
 
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..as much loud as audience could hear clearly..
 
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Jelle has the right idea.

However, on the original theme:


The speakers only need to be loud enough so all that the people in the room will be able to hear."



English will often let you get away with omitting the word "that" - unlike Spanish or German, but it is actually a key grammatical construct, whether express or implied. Perhaps better than "so that" would be "such that".
 
Paul Anilprem
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It feels like in all this rephrasing the intent of the original sentence is getting lost. Here is the background - Given the fact that there is a tendency to use speakers that are too loud, I want to convey that they need not be that loud. Hence the construction, "They only need to be....".

"The speakers only need to be loud enough so all the people in the room will be able to hear." - It does convey what I am trying to say but seems grammatically incorrect.

"The speakers only need to be as loud as all the people in the room are able to hear." - It is not clear what is being compared to what.

"The speakers should be loud enough to be clearly audible throughout the room, no louder." - Without the "only", it doesn't seems to convey the original implied assumption that speakers are too loud. It would be a good statement if there were no such presumption.

"..as much loud as audience could hear clearly.." - Not sure what is wrong with this but it does not sound right.

The following two seem to be the best options so far:

"The speakers only need to be loud enough so all that the people in the room will be able to hear."

"The speakers only need to be loud enough for all the people in the room to (be able to) hear them"

 
Paul Anilprem
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Is the use of "so" incorrect in this variation as well? "The speakers were so loud that they burst people's ears."
If this is correct, then isn't original sentence merely an extension of the same logic, "The speakers only need to be so loud as all the people in the room are able to hear."?
 
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Paul Anilprem wrote:Is the use of "so" incorrect in this variation as well? "The speakers were so loud that they burst people's ears."
If this is correct, then isn't original sentence merely an extension of the same logic, "The speakers only need to be so loud as all the people in the room are able to hear."?



This is "so" used in its aspect as an adverb. It's somewhat idiomatic, but nonetheless common and considered correct.
 
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Paul Anilprem wrote:...

The following two seem to be the best options so far:

"The speakers only need to be loud enough so all that the people in the room will be able to hear."

"The speakers only need to be loud enough for all the people in the room to (be able to) hear them"



I agree "The speakers only need to be loud enough for all the people in the room to (be able to) hear them" is the best options so far. I am puzzled about the word order of "... so all that ..." in the first best option, for me, I would say like this:

The speakers only need to be loud enough so that all the people in the room can hear.
 
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Interesting in that, as near as I can tell, I took the statement to have an entirely different meaning than the rest of the posters. I cannot attest to whether it is grammatically correct or incorrect, but the grammar checker at Ginger Software's Online Grammar checker claims it is grammatically correct.

Anyway, while most of you interpreted the statement to refer to people, my initial reading was a reference to the hardware (the actual sound system speaker(s)). While grammatically correct, it is poorly constructed. In my opinion anyway.

Regards,
Robert
 
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