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please guide me for an excellent career

 
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i am a just graduated non-computer science fresher. I choosed java for my programming career and then decided to get certified. right now i am OCAJP7 and hopefully will be OCPJP7 in next month. Before asking my question my would say "coderanch please forgive me if i abuse your question writing policy and please do update my post".
Now let's come to the point, recently i read some posts about the competitive programming. some websites which provide them like Topcoder,Codechef etc. I also saw that big company hire the capable persons from their(even freshers) at a good package.
Now after seeing that, i got confused whether should i continue my certifications or should practice on these websites. my main doubt is that they only focuses on the data structures and algorithm, will it be helpful in my software development career. please guide me the best.
Thank you
 
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Puspender Tanwar wrote:I choosed java for my programming career


That's like a carpenter saying "I have chosen a hammer for my career". Java is just one of many tools you will use throughout your career.
 
Puspender Tanwar
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hello Bear, you took it wrongly. I was trying to say that since i was not a Computer science student, i choose java to entering in the software filed. Of course i will not only stick to java.
 
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Puspender Tanwar
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one more thing i want to ask. since competitions on these websites are only on data structure and algorithm and companies too hire on these skills level only(form these websites), how could i learn the rest of the stuffs like javaEE, spring, hibernate, struts and other languages . Does the company will teach me rest of the stuffs ?
 
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Companies vary widely in in what signals they use to judge the capability of a candidate without prior job experience.

The big Indian IT service companies known for outsourcing tend to judge mainly on the institution you graduated from,
your academic scores, performance in their own aptitude tests, and your academic projects.
They usually don't care at all about your java or other certifications, or any competition scores.

In fact, they often don't even care that your personal interests are java or programming.
If you're very lucky, you may actually end up working on the technologies of your interest, but more likely you'll be made
to work in a technology that is completely different and that may not even be programming work (true story!).

On the other hand, the Indian arms of silicon valley web giants, our homegrown ecommerce giants, and small / midsized product companies
do consider things like competition scores, github projects, blog articles, publications....things you have done outside of academic work,
where you have shown passion and initiative to learn and implement things on your own.

The bigger ones consider academic scores too, but if you have done enough outside of pure academics, the scores may not matter
during shortlisting.

Another interesting trend is that these companies like those who are knowledgeable in languages like python, scala, node, and ruby.

So, in my opinion, apart from certification you should also do all those other activities. Things like a github presence and blogs are relatively easy,
while something like rising to the top of the competitions takes a lot more effort and time (on the order of 1-2 years). So plan accordingly.

Do companies teach you rest of the stuff?


The IT service companies train you on the tech they want you to work on.
If you are lucky, this may indeed by JavaEE/Spring/whatever you want.
But as I said above, it's more likely what they want is not what you want.

Among the other companies, the chances are high that they won't train.
Most companies prefer their candidates to be productive right from day 1, even freshers.
So if the choice is between one who knows core java and another who knows both core java and web applications, they will give the job to the latter rather than recruit the former and train them.

You should assume that nobody will train you and prefer learning yourself.
There are lots of options nowadays to learn on your own - Youtube videos, Online courses like Coursera, Books, Own projects on github,
Open source contributions, Training institutes, Meetups ... try each one of them out a little and choose the method(s) you find most effective for you.
 
Puspender Tanwar
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Thank you so much karthik for such a nice explanation. But i have read many post of people who got hired by top companies (being a fresher) through these competetive programming websites ?
 
Karthik Shiraly
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I'm not sure which companies you are referring to by "top companies".
The big Indian service companies don't do so as far as I know, but perhaps some have done once in a while.

Anyway, you have come across cases of some companies hiring through them, and I have come across cases of some (non-service) companies doing so as I have already mentioned above.
So it seems we agree. What's the "but" for?
 
Puspender Tanwar
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i have not mentioned the company name as it is against the coderanch policies. Top companies like google, fb , yahoo etc
 
Karthik Shiraly
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Puspender Tanwar wrote:i have not mentioned the company name as it is against the coderanch policies. Top companies like google, fb , yahoo etc


"...the Indian arms of silicon valley web giants....do consider things like competition scores...". So I guess we are in agreement
 
Puspender Tanwar
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Karthik Shiraly wrote:"...the Indian arms of silicon valley web giants....do consider things like competition scores...". So I guess we are in agreement


sorry karthik, but didn't understand yours words ?
 
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First of all, which non-CS subject did you graduate in?

Most of the leading IT companies that hire Graduate Software Developers don't really care whether or not you have studied Computer Science - they are more interested in whether you have the ability to program, not whether you have the knowledge to program. To be a good programmer, you need to be able to think logically, and therefore, subjects like Physics, Engineering, Maths - all these are absolutely fine. If you are good at these, you are likely to be good at programming.

Companies recruiting graduates are investing in you, they are willing to train you - all they require from you is to have the ability and be hard-working. A certification would be useful - some companies might not have the time to teach you from scratch, so if you have already shown you have some knowledge, this can get you an interview.
 
Puspender Tanwar
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i am a b.tech(Electonics and communication) graduate.
mainly i am in doubt to choose from these two option -
1. whether should i go for competitive programming on websites like topcoder,heakerEarth etc. and get hired from there
2. or should i start practicing aptitude and general ability and give some exams like ELITMUS or go to walkin interviews and get hired

I HAVE SEEN THAT STUDENTS GET HIRED BY THE TOP COMPANIES LIKE GOOGLE FB from competitive programming
I want to build career in the software/web development. Please help me out. Thank you
 
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I have struggled enough on the same part, so I'm going to tell you what I've learned and what I think you should do.
It's just my point of view, here it goes.

Since you've already passed the first java certification that means you know how to write programs in java.
I would suggest next you learn data structures and by learn I mean two things:

1. build data structure from scratch. once you do that, you understand what it is. then
2. java provides api for datastructures, use that.
3. Start writing test cases, learn JUnit. it's easy and very helpful.

once you feel you've learned enough. jump into algorithms. don't try to learn everything is there, just learn some and get the hang of it. the reason I'm saying do it fast so that you be productive at work asap. Assuming that you're working.

Now by this time you should be comfortable using Java.
Now I would suggest you to learn about databases because if you won't understand/learn about it you'll be always confused when you work in big projects. start with mysql. once you get the hang of it take up front-end because java alone is not going to help you. I diverted from java for a couple of months and rigorously worked in front-end. start with html, css and javascript. and if you really like it you can go ahead and learn js frameworks and css frameworks like bootstrap.

remember, you won't become champ just by learning/doing. it is going to take a lot of time to really become pro at anything. so don't sweat and take breaks and learn.

Once you've done all of this, I think you need to choose a path for your career (I'm not sure if I'm correct to tell you that).
If you want to build apps and etc, start learning android programming else start learning java mvc and etc. (currently I'm at this path and I'm not really sure what to do. although I've started independent project on java spring and will see how it goes).

HIH
 
Puspender Tanwar
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Thank you mohan
Right now I don't have any plan to learn android soon, but will learn definitely but don't know exactly when.
And what about jobs, when and where should i apply ?
 
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Puspender Tanwar wrote:
And what about jobs, when and where should i apply ?



Before everything, you need to ask yourself a couple of questions.
1) What is it that excites YOU! Web? Smart phone? Stand alone apps? QA? Support? Something else?
2) Do you want to go for what is typically called an MNC? Relatively OK job security. Brand value (especially useful in case you want to impress someone). Relatively easy going life. No tough responsibilities. Do as you are told.
3) OR do you want a startup type of work environment. Less salary (unless they have funding), loooong working hours, multiple responsibilities, awesome learning experience, get to work with good people, who don't wait for a committee approval, but just go ahead and get it done.

Once you have these answers,it should help you figure out when and where to apply.

On a related note, you mentioned you are b.tech(Electonics and communication)
Have you considered investing your free time melding electronics and IT? With Raspberry PI and Arduino type technologies, it has become very easy to build devices. With your BTech, it should be a piece of cake for you. You never know, you just might come up with the next big idea. If nothing else, it will look good on your resume.
 
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hey manish, thank you for your time
I heard first time this - "Raspberry PI and Arduino type". Don't what is this all about

Talking about me that what i want to do. I want to work in an environment where i could learn daily something new. I don't want to spend my life in 9am-6pm shift job. I want to learn, learn and implement. I have an idea for an e-commerce website in my mind. All i am planning to work as a software/web developer in any top MNC and then after 2-3 years start my own business . I want challenges in my life because easy is boring.

And if you are talking about the interest, i was very passionate about playing cricket and drawing sketch and paintings. But brother you know this, indian middle class families, you have only one option- Study. But i never complained for this, rather i created interest in programming. Don't know whether coding excites me or not, but yes i love to solve the star printing exercises, solving questions given in the exercise, playing with the database. I think I enjoy them and once i solved the task, i feel very happy. If this is called the excitement then yes i am excited about coding
 
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Puspender Tanwar wrote:I want to work in an environment where i could learn daily something new...I want challenges in my life because easy is boring....planning to work as a software/web developer in any top MNC


If you are really serious on learning and challenges, I would suggest drop the MNC.
 
Puspender Tanwar
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Maneesh Godbole wrote:If you are really serious on learning and challenges, I would suggest drop the MNC.


i am a fresher, with zero work experience .
I want to work in MNC so that I can learn that how big software are made. Once i learned these basic stuffs, i will drop my company
 
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Puspender Tanwar wrote:i am a b.tech(Electonics and communication) graduate.
mainly i am in doubt to choose from these two option -
1. whether should i go for competitive programming on websites like topcoder,heakerEarth etc. and get hired from there
2. or should i start practicing aptitude and general ability and give some exams like ELITMUS or go to walkin interviews and get hired

I HAVE SEEN THAT STUDENTS GET HIRED BY THE TOP COMPANIES LIKE GOOGLE FB from competitive programming
I want to build career in the software/web development. Please help me out. Thank you



Ok, in the UK we don't have BTech, we have BEng, so I guess you have done a BEng equivalent. Did you do any programming in your course? I know in the UK all BEng degrees have some programming, usually something like Fortran or C++ (and maybe Java now). Or are you completely new to programming?

If you have had very little programming experience, have you considered going into a Consulting role? Some Consulting roles can be quite technical, and you can actually move from Consulting to Development within the organisation.

All major IT companies recruiting graduates (at least here in the UK) will give aptitude tests - so, yes, you should practise those for sure. I think something like Topcoder can also be good, but I really do think that before you start coding you get a good introductory book on Software Development, and read it cover to cover. As you studied Electronics you should already know all about the foundations of Computing and so you probably do not need to get introduced to Computer Science.

Finally, why must you work for one of the companies like Google or Facebook? You should realise that a lot of people will want to work for these companies, so it will probably be difficult for you to get in - why not work for any company if the company offers you a good pay package and good opportunities to learn?
 
Puspender Tanwar
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google and fb are not the specific one. I can work in any company which provide me:
1. good salary(i specified google fb as they provide the best package)
2. a good learning environment
3. a better future
yes b.tech might be like bEng. Ahmed read my starting posts, i have written that i am certified java programmer, though i have not worked on any project, but yes know the concepts of javaSE.
I am thinking that after clearing OCPJP exam(next month for sure), i will learn some basics of servlet, sql, jsp, html form courseEra and some books. And side-wise i will compete on the topcoder and hackerEarth . Could you tell me how is my plan ?
I am focusing on topcoder, hackerEarth again and again because these are the only source where a fresher too can get placed in top companies.
 
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I wouldn't start with Servlets/JSP before SQL or HTML.

I would strongly suggest you first study SQL and JDBC, then HTML5 and CSS3. These are not difficult at all, and it would be something nice to put on your CV. Once you have completed these, you can move onto studying Servlets and JSP.

Everyone wants a good salary, but you have to be realistic. I am sure there are lots of good CS graduates in India, and they are probably more likely to be employed as a developer by the leading companies. You say you are from a middle-class family - that means you should not be desperate for money right now. That means you can afford to take a lower paid job. The key here is to take a job where you will LEARN things and where you can better yourself. Once you have established yourself as a competent developer, and have done well in your company, you can move onto the bigger companies that pay well.

Seriously, at your age salary shouldn't be that important, many people that I know on very good salaries started off at smaller companies that pay less and then proved themselves in the industry and moved up.
 
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I suspect that these large companies are finding people to interview from these websites rather than hiring them on the spot. Which means you still have to pass an interview. And that requires knowing more than just data structures.
 
Puspender Tanwar
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Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I suspect that these large companies are finding people to interview from these websites rather than hiring them on the spot. Which means you still have to pass an interview. And that requires knowing more than just data structures.


yes you are right, they don't directly hire, but a call for interview is the first step which can't be possible without these website(offcampus placement)

Ahmed, i will follow your guidance.
can you refer me some good companies where i can get a good learning (let's forget about money) ?
 
Ahmed Bin S
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Puspender Tanwar wrote:
can you refer me some good companies where i can get a good learning (let's forget about money) ?



Erm, there is no list that exists of companies where you can learn a lot of things to further your career.

You could try glassdoor.com - they have a section for India - to see how people have reviewed companies, but I certainly wouldn't limit myself to only large companies - sometimes working for a small software house can be great for your career, you can end up working in a small team where the other more knowledgeable people spend time mentoring you.
 
Puspender Tanwar
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Thank you Ahmed
 
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