kotlin will be the future of java also in the backend?

[Giovanni Montano]

there is a forum to discuss about languages trend? Just would like to hear more voices.

In the doubt I post here. Kotlin is not only syntactic sugar, everybody I met that is using it since at least 3 months said would not go back to Java anymore. Personally now that I am playing a bit with it, I found it really smart, and now that the initial steep learning curve is becoming flatter I begin to realize that is much easier to read than Java, and become to think over that could be the future also on the back end side, and why not in C# as well. Could be that within 5 years there will be only Kotlin( that is already really similar to swift), Python, and JS? But my main question at the moment is: there is some signal that point out that Kotlin could overtake backend java/scala environments? Communities, team that are using it, blogs etc. I found this at the moment https://spring.io/blog/2016/02/15/developing-spring-boot-applications-with-kotlin

[kavin savvy]

I feel the same, i.e. no more java coding. In fact, I was moving away from Java to JS echo system, but kotlin is game changer.

If they can come up with kotlin to JS framework and make kotlin as one language for web development will be great. At the moment, Angular & react are dominating on frontend space.

[Bear Bibeault]

kavin savvy wrote:If they can come up with kotlin to JS framework and make kotlin as one language for web development will be great. At the moment, Angular & react are dominating on frontend space.

This seems to indicate that Angular and React are alternative languages such as Kotlin that one can choose to use on the web (or anywhere else). In fact, React and Angular are both JavaScript frameworks, not languages -- anymore than Spring is an alternative "language" to Java.

While both React and Angular can be used with ES5 (the current version of JavaScript widely supported by currently employed browsers), they are more often written in ES6 (React) and TypeScript (Angular) and transpiled to ES5.

I'm sure someone could come with a Kotlin transpiler in order to be able to use it on the web, but there would need to be big incentive for people to use it -- like some killer new framework. Just the availability of the language wouldn't be enough enticement. TypeScript would be unheard of without Angular pulling it along.

[kavin savvy]

Bear Bibeault wrote:

kavin savvy wrote:If they can come up with kotlin to JS framework and make kotlin as one language for web development will be great. At the moment, Angular & react are dominating on frontend space.

This seems to indicate that Angular and React are alternative languages such as Kotlin that one can choose to use on the web (or anywhere else). In fact, React and Angular are both JavaScript frameworks, not languages -- anymore than Spring is an alternative "language" to Java.

While both React and Angular can be used with ES5 (the current version of JavaScript widely supported by currently employed browsers), they are more often written in ES6 (React) and TypeScript (Angular) and transpiled to ES5.

I'm sure someone could come with a Kotlin transpiler in order to be able to use it on the web, but there would need to be big incentive for people to use it -- like some killer new framework. Just the availability of the language wouldn't be enough enticement. TypeScript would be unheard of without Angular pulling it along.

Exactly... I am going through a lot of pain of coding typescript with angular 2. UI libraries are half-baked, i.e. one lib don't have a particular component you are looking for and vice versa.  

React is another pain with a weird way of JSX (god help me)..

My true love for front end was Adobe Flex (take out runtime flash). You can write all three forms of application with one code base (limitation on mobile side) ..it is dead.

Kotlin code can be converted to JS (older version), but as you said killer framework can move the needle towards kotlin as one language for web & mobile. Right now, JS provides such eco system but using so many third party libraries makes a development night-mare. Furthermore, consider Angular 2 is releasing new version every month (minor but still need to update them to stay current)

My main frustration is with one language dominating on front-end, i.e. JS or typescript for angular 2. I want to be full stack and can't afford to remain back end only (employment point of view) and love for making UI (minus styling part)

[Giovanni Montano]

for me the game is between kotlin vs reactJS, native react is already taking mobile native market

[kavin savvy]

If you want to stay in JS world react native is good choice with some issues. reactjs license can become problem but I will keep that aside for now.

[url=https://blog.madebywindmill.com/an-ios-devs-experience-with-react-native-559275b5a4e8]An iOS Dev’s Experience with React Native
[/url]


You can build an application for JVM, android, native & browser. I believe JVM & android got better head start considering JS & native. I can code in JS (not expert level) but kotlin as a language is far superior.

At the moment, reactive native is ahead of kotlin on the mobile platform. I wish kotlin can add IOS to seal the deal.

Out of all modern languages I like kotlin.

[Giovanni Montano]

kavin savvy wrote:If you want to stay in JS world react native is good choice with some issues. reactjs license can become problem but I will keep that aside for now.

[url=https://blog.madebywindmill.com/an-ios-devs-experience-with-react-native-559275b5a4e8]An iOS Dev’s Experience with React Native
[/url]


You can build an application for JVM, android, native & browser. I believe JVM & android got better head start considering JS & native. I can code in JS (not expert level) but kotlin as a language is far superior.

At the moment, reactive native is ahead of kotlin on the mobile platform. I wish kotlin can add IOS to seal the deal.

Out of all modern languages I like kotlin.

if kotlin will add Ios will be great. But I think this platform could allow that only if things go really bad for them. They have interest to have sw developed under Ios and not Android. Another scenario is if reactJs became so popular that would be the only way to increase the share of native( android ios devs)


At the moment swift is really similar to Ios. and there are already tool that do what you suggest https://github.com/angelolloqui/SwiftKotlin

But despite all reactive native presents a lot of advantages. And is an high required skills. If Java coders in the back end will prefer kotlin to scala, then companies could consider it much more attractive. There is a decent spring boot kotlin community at the moment.

Nobody can predict, and reactive native at the moment is far to die, I am dedicating 10 per cent of my time to learn it. That kotlin is much more structured that's for sure, but is much more complex and at the moment at my view there is no way is going to take the market of the small/medium  native react apps, also most important, native react is possibly faster and cheaper than kotlin for alluring a company architect neeeds

[kavin savvy]

Google is using Dart internally for sometime. Now they are coming out with AngularDart 2.0 and Flutter (mobile framework similar to react native).

It is pretty obvious Flutter use Dart. They are introducing write one base code for web & mobile using AngularDart & Flutter.

Google converted Adsense (money making app) from GWT to Dart.  TypeScript or Dart transpile to javascript, so that says lot of about react native.

If you like javascript react (web) & react native (mobile) are ahead in the game for sure.

[Jesper de Jong]

Bear Bibeault wrote:I'm sure someone could come with a Kotlin transpiler in order to be able to use it on the web, ...

This already exists, and is one of the four officially supported platforms for Kotlin: JVM, Android, browser (JavaScript runtime) and native.

[Bear Bibeault]

Jesper de Jong wrote:

Bear Bibeault wrote:I'm sure someone could come with a Kotlin transpiler in order to be able to use it on the web, ...

This already exists, and is one of the four officially supported platforms for Kotlin: JVM, Android, browser (JavaScript runtime) and native.

Yes, I see that. Wise move.

Now, if someone comes up with the Next Big JSFramework that uses it, it could catch on.

Otherwise, "it's just a batter language" doesn't seem to gain traction. Evidence: coffeescript which was everyone's darling new language 3 years ago, and today is treated like a week-old bagel with fuzzy green and white mold sitting on the counter.