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More on Agile

 
Rancher
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Jim Venolia wrote:Agile?  Never used it.  But I have been in situations where we had daily meetings and I can tell you flat out that was a real morale killer.



For me, whether it's because sometimes I feel like we're "meeting'd to death" at work, or because I just sometimes plain hate meetings in general (although I will admit I have been in some very productive meetings over the years, where issues were resolved quicker than they probably would have had we just emailed back and forth), the daily Agile meetings can be hard to take. Sometimes there are so many things you need to do in your work, and a meeting just cuts into that time. But, I can't really blame Agile for that, I have been involved in projects where there were daily meetings and we weren't using Agile.

Again, I am not trying to put Agile down. I haven't used it long enough to give it a fair analysis on whether or not I like it. I do also like to keep an open mind. If I didn't I'm pretty sure I would stagnate in my career.
 
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Randy Maddocks wrote:If I didn't I'm pretty sure I would stagnate in my career.



I have been looking for a job without Agile/SCRUM for a year or so and gave up. I have adjusted my terms to: As long as they are not too fanatical about Agile. At the moment they try to lure me in by saying: 'come to us, we are so Agile!!', I skip the vacancy. If they say, you are in a SCRUM team, some experience with Agile is desired, I'd accept if I would like the remainder or the vacancy.
 
Randy Maddocks
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Jan de Boer wrote:I have been looking for a job without Agile/SCRUM for a year or so and gave up



From what I am seeing Agile is here to stay (at least for the foreseeable future). I see more and more companies promoting it, and encouraging their employees to embrace it. For me personally I come back to my comment about keeping an open mind. In one project I am currently involved with I have been doing ok with Agile (daily meetings aside). Like most of us, it's a learning process.

I have read several articles about Agile, to try and get a grasp on what it is about Agile some developers do not like. One such article offered some interesting perspectives: Agile - Why hate
 
Marshal
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More and more, the term "Agile" has been misappropriated by people using the term to justify doing things diametrically opposite the values and principles the original 17 signatories of the Agile Manifesto had in mind.

See some of the things Ron Jeffries, one of the original signers and father of XP has said:
https://ronjeffries.com/articles/018-01ff/abandon-1/
https://www.zdnet.com/article/agile-development-needs-to-be-more-than-a-feel-good-term/
 
Jan de Boer
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Junilu Lacar wrote:More and more, the term "Agile" has been misappropriated



Sure...

Sorry but I do not believe that anymore. I once had a muslim girl friend. She told me the same thing about Islam.
 
Marshal
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Jan, you are complaining so much about it, that I don't really understand what you are actually complaining about.

Feels like stuck on some glitch and can't get over it. If you read agile manifesto once again (might very first time), and do some re-search about the practical parts, you'd see that most of the things (probably all) make sense. No rocket science there, just a pragmatic way building nowadays software.

What Junilu told, that this term has been misused at a large scale, which in turn confused many people, including you.

Can you maybe once again list the items, what you don't like exactly? Don't take words from the thin air. Open up manifesto, and in simple words please tell what you disagree about from the information provided there?

Here is the link --> http://agilemanifesto.org/

These are broad items, you can go down to more detailed ones.
 
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Jan de Boer wrote:I once had a muslim girl friend. She told me the same thing about Islam.


I take it that back then you didn't go and read the document in question for yourself, either?
 
Jan de Boer
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Tim Moores wrote:

Jan de Boer wrote:I once had a muslim girl friend. She told me the same thing about Islam.


I take it that back then you didn't go and read the document in question for yourself, either?



You mean I did not read the Quran?

Actually I am thinking about showing some creativity and changing a cartoon about islam, and change islam to agile. I saw it on twitter, it very much applies.
 
Tim Moores
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Well, if one doesn't take the time to learn what something is -as opposed to what some people say it is, and how some people use something- then of course one can arrive at all kinds of conclusions, most of them probably wrong.

But you seem set on not taking the good advice Junilu and Liutauras gave you, so there's probably no point in discussing this any further.
 
Jan de Boer
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The cartoon goes something like this:

Man says         Woman in Niqab answers
Muslims do…           They are not real muslims
Islam fails to           That is not real Islam
Muslims say           You have not read the Quran
In the Quran it says..            You did not understand the Quran

In Agile
I say:      Junilu in Niqab says
Agilist do…                    They are not real agilists
Scrum fails to            That is not real Agile
My scrummaster says            You have not read the Manifest
In the Manifest it says….         You did not understand the Manifest

I can redraw the whole cartoon, but I am a little busy. ;-)
 
Jan de Boer
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Tim Moores wrote:But you seem set on not taking the good advice Junilu and Liutauras gave you, so there's probably no point in discussing this any further.



No I did read all the books. My manager told me to do that. And actually at that time I had an open mind for it. Quite the opposite, the more I got to know about it, the móre I disliked it. (And that is also like Islam for that matter.)

And in fact the cartoon was to show how useless it is to discuss with a fanatical muslim, so..
 
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