Granny's Programming Pearls
"inside of every large program is a small program struggling to get out"
JavaRanch.com/granny.jsp
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Liutauras Vilda
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Devaka Cooray
  • Paul Clapham
Sheriffs:
  • Tim Cooke
  • Knute Snortum
  • Bear Bibeault
Saloon Keepers:
  • Ron McLeod
  • Tim Moores
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Piet Souris
  • Ganesh Patekar
Bartenders:
  • Frits Walraven
  • Carey Brown
  • Tim Holloway

Kotlin for Android App Development: was Java a mistake by Google?

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 390
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi,

Google seems to form an opinion on languages and development environments and then force developers to do it the "Google way".
First it was forcing everyone to use Android Studio rather than the Eclipse plug in. Now it's Kotlin.

Was picking a Java a mistake when Google first decided to make their own phone software ?

I guess I'm just not getting why there is such a hard push for developers to move to Kotlin.

I'm new to phone development and picked Android because ,as a Java developer, it a was context that I knew and I could focus on the specific issues of phone development without worrying about the quirks of a new language on top of it.

Has something changed with phones that make languages like Objective C or Java obsolete or is it that both companies just made a poor choice of language for phone operating systems?

Thanks,
Paul
 
Bartender
Posts: 2294
95
Google Web Toolkit Eclipse IDE Java
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Maybe it's not a technical reason at all: https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/27/oracle-wins-appeal-against-google-in-copyright-case/
 
paul nisset
Ranch Hand
Posts: 390
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

salvin francis wrote:Maybe it's not a technical reason at all: https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/27/oracle-wins-appeal-against-google-in-copyright-case/


Everything is open source ,until it's not.
 
Saloon Keeper
Posts: 5587
144
Android Mac OS X Firefox Browser VI Editor Tomcat Server Safari
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I don't see Kotlin being forced on Android developers: it's co-equal with Java.

paul nisset wrote:Everything is open source ,until it's not.


Care to elaborate on what you mean by that?
 
Author
Posts: 28
5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Paul,

Salvin already pointed you to the legal dispute Google had with Oracle so this was definitely a push for them to promote a different language.

But even so, we always keep improving. We learn about which language features work well and which don't. And we incorporate research into newer programming language to build better languages that help write better software.

So it's just natural that after so many years, Android and iOS offer newer languages (Kotlin, Swift) as alternatives to the older languages (Java, Objective C).

However, I also wouldn't say that Google is forcing Kotlin on Android, or that it forced Android Studio. They do naturally have to focus on one tool that they consider to be the future.

- Peter
 
paul nisset
Ranch Hand
Posts: 390
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Tim Moores wrote:
Care to elaborate on what you mean by that?



Oracle has been working on changing the licencing model involved with using Java.
I understand that it's one reason people are switching to alternate JVM's .

I definitely get the impression that Google is actively pushing people   to switch to Kotlin . Does this mean that they feel that using Java was a bad choice for the platform?  
 
paul nisset
Ranch Hand
Posts: 390
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Peter Sommerhoff wrote:Hi Paul,

Salvin already pointed you to the legal dispute Google had with Oracle so this was definitely a push for them to promote a different language.

But even so, we always keep improving. We learn about which language features work well and which don't. And we incorporate research into newer programming language to build better languages that help write better software.

So it's just natural that after so many years, Android and iOS offer newer languages (Kotlin, Swift) as alternatives to the older languages (Java, Objective C).

However, I also wouldn't say that Google is forcing Kotlin on Android, or that it forced Android Studio. They do naturally have to focus on one tool that they consider to be the future.

- Peter



Thanks Peter.
I guess that 's what I was asking . Was the switch to Kotlin primarily business related or technical ? Your answer indicates you believe it is kind of both.
 
Peter Sommerhoff
Author
Posts: 28
5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi Paul,

Was the switch to Kotlin primarily business related or technical ? Your answer indicates you believe it is kind of both.



I do believe it was both. Or if we assume the adoption was technically motivated, the dispute at least accelerated it.

But I'm not in the position to guess which motivation was stronger, that's above my pay grade

- Peter
 
paul nisset
Ranch Hand
Posts: 390
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Peter Sommerhoff wrote:

I do believe it was both. Or if we assume the adoption was technically motivated, the dispute at least accelerated it.


- Peter


That makes sense.
Thanks.
 
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!