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Do other countries exist only to produce the best minds for USA?

 
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In USA, there are so many immigrants who work in "high-skilled" jobs. Some of these people are famous all over the world. For example :

Linus Torvalds of Finland (Linux),
Elon Musk of South Africa (Tesla, SpaceX, Paypal),
Peter Thiel (Palantir, Paypal),
Sergey Brin of Russia (Google),
Sundar Pichai of India (Google),
Jawed Kareem of Germany (Youtube),
Jan Koum of Ukraine (WhatsApp) etc.

There are many others who make successful companies or are top employees of great companies, but are not as famous as the above people. Therefore, most people don't hear about them outside of magazines like Wired, Forbes etc.

Many people often praise Europe and other countries for their generous social benefits (made possible by high taxes), education systems, health care systems, and for their strong regulations and enforcement. They often say that USA has fared worse in those areas compared to those countries.

If other countries are doing so much better in these areas, then why do so many of their citizens flock to the USA for jobs and citizenship ? Sure, there are many brilliant people who either work only for their country or return from the US to their country. But many of them don't. It almost feels as if Israel, China, India, Russia, Germany, France, Italy etc. exist only to produce brilliant minds for USA.

Are other countries simply ending up producing brilliant people for the US ?

 
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Ask Tim-Berners Lee.

Ask Stephen Hawking. OK, maybe not Stephen Hawking.

"Best Mind", incidentally, in my book doesn't equate to "heads up a major international corporation". Actually, I don't rate "Best Mind" as develops socially-questionable products, but that's just me.

It's also debatable if "best minds" are going to continue to flock to the USA, considering that, to quote someone or other "We're full". Immigrants are no longer confident of a warm welcome.
 
Eran Morad
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Tim Holloway wrote:Ask Tim-Berners Lee......It's also debatable if "best minds" are going to continue to flock to the USA, considering that, to quote someone or other "We're full". Immigrants are no longer confident of a warm welcome.



As long as there is a genuine demand for highly skilled and important immigrants, most Americans will give them a warm welcome, including the ones who secretly despise them due to their skin color, race, religion etc. More importantly, many immigrants will come to the US despite institutional racism (internment of Japanese origin Americans after pear harbor), or individual racism (attacks on Asian people due to corona virus) as long as the US offers better opportunities and quality of life compared to their native countries.

However, would-be immigrants might not want to come to the US only when racism makes daily life dangerous for majority of the immigrants. If a few immigrants get shot occasionally by racists (example - indian man shot in kansas bar) or insulted, then most of the immigrants will forget it by the next day and move on. I wonder if immigrants from developing countries are far more likely to get killed by accidents, disease, crime or terrorism in their native countries, than they would be by those things plus racists in USA. If that is indeed the case or the perception, then USA would seem like a better option for immigrants than their native country, regardless of racism. Better quality of work, higher pay, better quality of life and lower chance of death/injury in USA would still seem like a good deal. It becomes an even sweeter deal if a person is being persecuted in their country. I guess its all about which country can offer a better deal.
 
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And the States would do wise to send, in return, the brilliant Mr. Trump to the donating countries.    (oops, that should be in the Rattlesnake's pitt)
 
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What's that, Piet? Do you want to put Mr Trump in a snakepit?
 
Piet Souris
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Hmmm... I better leave that up to the Americans.  
 
Campbell Ritchie
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When I was young, we had a phenomenon called the “brain drain”. People were leaving Europe for the USA, and the Government and the press inveighed against it severely. Years later, I learnt that many aeronautical engineers left Britain after cancellation of the TSR‑2 project (I have seen a real live TSR‑2), because there were no longer any jobs for them on this side of the Pond. The only people who would employ them were Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, and Lockheed. That puts a slightly different complexion on the whole problem. We also had emigration to South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand; I know people who went there.
 
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Eran Morad wrote:Many people often praise Europe and other countries for their generous social benefits (made possible by high taxes), education systems, health care systems, and for their strong regulations and enforcement. They often say that USA has fared worse in those areas compared to those countries.

If other countries are doing so much better in these areas, then why do so many of their citizens flock to the USA for jobs and citizenship?


The points you mention concern the general quality of life. There are other reasons, likely the entrepreneurial and technical ecosystem already in place, that make immigrating to the US still look attractive to some. But the people you mention have been in the US for a while. Under the administrations of Bush Jr (after 9/11) and Trump, the US has become decidedly less friendly to immigrants, which includes attracting fewer foreign students, which in turn results in fewer qualified high-tech workers staying in the US. That is happening already.

I wonder if immigrants from developing countries are far more likely to get killed by accidents, disease, crime or terrorism in their native countries, than they would be by those things plus racists in USA.


No doubt the answer to that depends a great deal on what kind of immigrants we're talking about - so-called highly skilled folks that end up working for tech companies, or (legal or illegal) refugees and economic migrants.
 
Eran Morad
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Campbell Ritchie wrote:When I was young, we had a phenomenon called the “brain drain”. People were leaving Europe for the USA, and the Government and the press inveighed against it severely. Years later, I learnt that many aeronautical engineers left Britain after cancellation of the TSR‑2 project (I have seen a real live TSR‑2), because there were no longer any jobs for them on this side of the Pond. The only people who would employ them were Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, and Lockheed. That puts a slightly different complexion on the whole problem. We also had emigration to South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand; I know people who went there.



That is interesting. I wonder why those people actually left (lack of jobs and/or not enough pay, low sunshine etc.) and if they came back. When other countries mess up, USA wins by employing all their smart folks (ex. German V2 rocket scientists, Soviet scientists etc.). In such cases, those countries are entirely responsible for their own loss. The more they falter, the better it is for other countries, but mainly USA.

I guess most of the highly skilled immigrants make enough money (thanks to their skills) to not be impacted by the quality & price of education, health care etc. in USA. They can always afford their overpriced health care and pay for their kids private tutors. Their native countries might provide better government, better health care, education etc. But none of that matters if they can't "provide" them great jobs and money. Maybe eventually, most of the smart folks in these countries would have departed for the US and they willl be left with "ordinary" citizens and a few "special" ones.
 
Eran Morad
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Tim Moores wrote:

I wonder if immigrants from developing countries are far more likely to get killed by accidents, disease, crime or terrorism in their native countries, than they would be by those things plus racists in USA.


No doubt the answer to that depends a great deal on what kind of immigrants we're talking about - so-called highly skilled folks that end up working for tech companies, or (legal or illegal) refugees and economic migrants.



Yes, but its possible that even legal, "non-hardship based" immigrants could suffer more in their native countries. See the traffic in big cities of south east asia for instance. Its a miracle if one can survive that for several years.
 
Eran Morad
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Piet Souris wrote:And the States would do wise to send, in return, the brilliant Mr. Trump to the donating countries.    (oops, that should be in the Rattlesnake's pitt)



yes, but only as a circus clown.
 
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