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Some Broken Links on the Faq

 
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I noticed three broken links on the Faq for this forum at:
https://coderanch.com/wiki/659730/Oo-Patterns-Uml-Refactoring-Faq

These are really old, but pretty classic.  I noticed much newer pieces by others still linking back to them when looking:
Why extends is evil (Allen Holub)
Why getter and setter methods are evil (Allen Holub)
More on getter and setters (Allen Holub)

Links that still work in 2021:
https://www.infoworld.com/article/2073649/why-extends-is-evil.html
https://www.infoworld.com/article/2073723/why-getter-and-setter-methods-are-evil.html
https://www.infoworld.com/article/2072302/more-on-getters-and-setters.html

WOW is there a lot of good stuff in our FAQ, only really started looking at it today.


 
Jesse Silverman
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It is past bedtime, so two possible links for this/design patterns faq:

https://sourcemaking.com/design_patterns

https://refactoring.guru/design-patterns

Cons: They sell a book, for money
Pros: There seems to be a lot of really good stuff on those sites in these areas, well thought out.  Several of the less dumb things I have seen pointed back to them as where they learned their stuff...
 
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That's a wiki page that anyone can edit, so you can just go ahead and add, update and delete (where appropriate) stuff as you see fit. The FAQ pages link to lots of books and commercial sites, so as long as those also show interesting content for free, that would be OK.
 
Jesse Silverman
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The FAQ also contains five links (three unique) to ObjectMentor.com
I remember that as a great site, I haven't found working links at other locations, but haven't looked much.

The WayBack Machine at archive.org shows that these links were valid thru the end of 2015, while the domain resolves to some unrelated spammy stuff (precisely because there are a lot of links out there in the world to it), it looks like we would have the options to find new ones or to link via. wayback machine.

 
Jesse Silverman
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There's a lot of areas in the Faq that can probably benefit from updating, and there are some newer books that someone from the Ranch should probably review.

Bedtime creeped up on me, but to not lose the information I dredged up while trying to deal with some of our broken Links regarding ORM here are some of the newer books by the same author that we make no mention of at present:

I got this one in I think, but might need some clean-up:
https://www.amazon.com/Information-Modeling-Relational-Databases-Management/dp/0123735688/

These all look interesting (certainly at least if our original attention to the topic was warranted, much further work has been done):

(possibly this one):
https://www.amazon.com/Innovations-Information-Systems-Modeling-Practices/dp/160566278X/

Very likely these two:
https://www.amazon.com/Object-Role-Modeling-Fundamentals-Practical-Guide/dp/1634620747/

https://www.amazon.com/Object-Role-Modeling-Workbook-Exercises-using/dp/1634621042/

If the original coverage was warranted (I haven't read any of the books yet) it seems likely that these could be valuable.
 
Jesse Silverman
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I've been more cautious about simply removing links than trying to replace them, because I lack the long-term context of having been there when they were originally added.

A large percentage of broken links could likely cause anyone looking at it to just give up and move on.

This would be unfortunate because there is still a lot of earlier good material that is still reachable, and a lot of good newer stuff that I have been adding.

Some of the links that I am tempted to simply remove as "He's dead, Jim!"
From:
https://coderanch.com/wiki/660225/Design-Pattern-Links

The Design Patterns Java Companion
http://www.patterndepot.com/put/8/JavaPatterns.htm

Pattern Stories Wiki
http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/PatternStories/DesignPatterns

Thinking In Patterns - free e-book
http://64.78.49.204/
Vince Huston's Design Patterns Page
http://home.earthlink.net/~huston2/dp/patterns.html
Exciton Design Patterns Page
http://www.exciton.cs.rice.edu/JavaResources/DesignPatterns/default.htm
Java Design Patterns - Reference and Examples
http://fluffycat.com/Java-Design-Patterns

OOA/D, Design Patterns, and Software Methodologies
http://object.motime.com

Alternatives in the case of exceptionally high-quality material no longer available at those links would be either to post a link to its original location using archive.org's Wayback Machine or for someone to put in a little work to see if the content has just moved elsewhere.

If nobody is looking to do either, the best thing would probably be to just remove all of these, a step I was not looking to uni-laterally commit to.
 
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You have done a great deal of work looking at those links. I suggest you search for what those links should be; if you find anything useful edit the link and give it the green spot. If you don't find anything, delete the link as broken and give it the black spot. There is no point in having broken links on any pages; they make it look unprofessional.

At least that is my opinion. It might be worth waiting for other opinions.
 
Tim Moores
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Jesse Silverman wrote:I've been more cautious about simply removing links than trying to replace them, because I lack the long-term context of having been there when they were originally added.



I've cleaned up and updated a number of FAQ pages, and my approach has been: 1) search for the title to see if they are available anywhere else, if not 2) see if the Wayback machine still has them, and if not, 3) remove the link.

For some of the more technical links -not so much design and process- links may have become obsolete anyway, in which case they can just go.
 
Jesse Silverman
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I'll slog thru these and do some of the ground-work, I think I might appreciate some judgement as to which way to proceed, but here's some of the ground-work.

As old as some of these are, they are arguably equally or more relevant than consulting the #1 source, which is from 1994 and provides examples in SmallTalk and pre-ISO '98 C++ because neither ISO C++ nor Java existed yet, so, there's that:

1. James W. Cooper's 1998 website and book.  It appears to have been an Early Classic for these topics in Java.
Extensive examples in Java 1.1/2:
(dead link):
http://www.patterndepot.com/put/8/JavaPatterns.htm

Wayback Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070210205921/http://www.patterndepot.com/put/8/JavaPatterns.htm

The full PDF of the book is found there:
https://web.archive.org/web/20070205222203/http://www.patterndepot.com/put/8/DesignJava.PDF

Alternate site for the full PDF:
https://www.freetechbooks.com/the-design-patterns-java-companion-t126.html

Pros: Appears to be an Absolute Classic by a very serious author
Cons: It is from 1998, so not only pre-Java 5, but Java 2 was brand new.  The extensive examples are not exactly Modern Java

==================================================================================
Pattern Stories Wiki
http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/PatternStories/DesignPatterns

This has the usual problems of an archived website, the user will be hopping around links on archive.org:
https://web.archive.org/web/20071025044015/http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/PatternStories/DesignPatterns

So: Pros -- It appears some Very Smart People who knew a lot worked very hard on that site
Cons: It feels very awkward, nobody will forget they are crawling WayBack links for a moment.  It hasn't been touched for years
==================================================================================

The search for the material above came up with the following pretty and up-to-date and friendly page on the same topic, which is about 20 years newer:
https://www.programcreek.com/java-design-patterns-in-stories/

I haven't looked at it extensively yet, but at an initial glance it looks like a very good site with a different approach to other ones that are still current today.  I don't think the material is closely related, they took the idea and ran with it from scratch.  Looks nice, approachable and friendly.
==================================================================================
This is probably the most broken link of the bunch.  It is not clear whether this was to an early draft of Bruce Eckel's never published book or something else:

Thinking In Patterns - free e-book
http://64.78.49.204/

If that is what it was supposed to be, the latest/nearest-to-complete version I found was at:
https://book.huihoo.com/thinking-in-patterns-0.9/html/TIPatterns.htm

Pros: It's Bruce Eckel.  He is a favorite author for many, many people.
Cons: It's not a book, it's a book in development that seems never to have gotten finished.  It's real Bruce Eckel, but not quite a real book.

Again, it is only a good guess that this is what that horrible link to a raw IP address was meant to represent.  Due diligence Done.
==================================================================================
Vince Huston's Design Patterns Page
http://home.earthlink.net/~huston2/dp/patterns.html

Punk's not dead?  Maybe it is, but this nice website is alive and well and has just moved on over to:
http://www.vincehuston.org/dp/

I now see zero reason not to just update the link -- it appears that huge amounts of work went into this site over many, many years.
==================================================================================
Exciton Design Patterns Page
http://www.exciton.cs.rice.edu/JavaResources/DesignPatterns/default.htm

I couldn't find any newer home for an updated version of this source.  I tried for several minutesl
It is somewhat less painful to navigate the WayBack nature of these pages than some of the others that I've looked at:
https://web.archive.org/web/20061103162147/http://www.exciton.cs.rice.edu/javaresources/DesignPatterns/default.htm

Pros: This was probably very good back in 2003, put together by knowledgeable individuals
Cons: Feels pretty tripping-over-wayback-y, probably not much here from after ~2003
==================================================================================
Java Design Patterns - Reference and Examples
http://fluffycat.com/Java-Design-Patterns

This website left us rather recently after a 18-year-run.  I feel a little sad I'd never visited it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160914041003/http://www.fluffycat.com/Java-Design-Patterns/

Pros: Seems pretty usable and approachable even in WayBack Machine
Cons: Site was eventually taken down, so we are stuck with WayBack (which does seem to work pretty well)
==================================================================================
OOA/D, Design Patterns, and Software Methodologies
http://object.motime.com

https://web.archive.org/web/20080715133920/http://object.motime.com/
Pros: It was kinda nice for a blog
Cons: It was just a blog, and apparently ended in 2005.  We should probably just drop this one

==================================================================================
I may make some of the more obvious changes this morning, but will leave this posted for reference so people can disagree after the fact without losing anything...
We are slowly getting there on this being a highly useful page to some of the best links on the web on this topic.
 
Campbell Ritchie
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Jesse Silverman wrote:. . . Appears to be an Absolute Classic by a very serious author
. . .It is from 1998

If you think it is any good, put it in and say it is an early/old work

. . . awkward, nobody will forget they are crawling WayBack links for a moment.  It hasn't been touched for years . . .

If you think a link is to awkward to use, leave it out. Remember you can hide the link behind the dispayed text.

Bruce Eckel's never published book or something else . . . .

I agree that it is a bad idea to link a never‑published book. Is there anything on mindprod.com?
 
Jesse Silverman
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I left the newest link I can find anywhere to the Eckel book, because, hey, it's Bruce, but I think I put appropriate warning text.
It is one of several books he never finished/went back to, but some people love even half-baked BE, so...

I did like four times as much work as I planned to this morning on this.

There is still a lot of room for improvement, even not accounting for taste, but I can be proud that:
1. The worst offenders of long, long-dead links are now pointed to on WayBack with WayBack warnings for those who are dedicated to great classics, or deleted, where "Of all the sites from way back then, they were...one of them"

2. Several sites that have had tremendous amounts of effort put into them and are exceptionally up-to-date that were mentioned nowhere despite being at least as relevant as the dead links had been when first put up are now covered.  Maybe we can think of better ways to introduce them or comment on them, but the links page now captures what I think most would think of us top important recent links to current work were they to spend the time searching for stuff.

To me, that is the primary point of the links page -- I would no longer be relying on personal bookmarks/favorites to find what I consider the most important/relevant/best sties now.

Also, the "smell of neglect" for the page is, I hope, blown away by the recent attention.
 
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It may be the magnification factor I'm using, but the fonts on some of that page scream "Circus Poster" to me.

I brought it up in the editor and swapped some of the code tags for Wiki tags, but in preview mode, the Wiki tags are showing verbatim, not formatter, so for this page at least, the Wiki doesn't seem to be acting like a Wiki. Strange, because I added something not that long ago and I thought it did.  
 
Jesse Silverman
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"Circus Poster"!

There have been a lot of changes to the forum software recently, and I have limited experience with the format of the FAQ.

I tried to "observe local custom" regarding how I saw things formatted before I got there, but I do not necessarily disagree.

I'm more concerned with the content and validity of the links at the moment, but it is nice to have it look somewhat consistent with other FAQ pages (or at least other Links pages) we may have, I am all for consistency in presentation too.  Just less practiced in that.
Broken Link Research is something I'd done many times before.  It was only complicated by trying to be respectful of choices made by persons unknown who likely put a good deal of thought into the earlier choices -- certain exceptions to that already noted.

It had been a heck of a while since anyone had really looked for "Good Recently-Appearing Sites on this topic", that was clear.
 
Jesse Silverman
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Last batch of comments:

Content-wise, I don't for one moment want to appear like I don't know about or deeply appreciate the pioneering work that has been done by Hillside and Portland, they were considered Very Reputable Sites when I first paid any attention to this topic (briefly) in 2006 or so:

Hillside.net Patterns Library
http://hillside.net/patterns/

Portland Pattern Repository aka Wards Wiki
http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki?DesignPatterns

These links aren't broken, and again, these are pages made by absolutely Premier Patterns Pioneers.

But they do have some poorly maintained (broken) links, and are aimed more at fellow experts than those wanting a friendly and fun introduction.  I am not sure that it is useful to be placing them first on the page.

I hate feeling disrespectful of any people and groups that have worked hard to educate people in anything (but here, Design Patterns and Java).  However, this link, while not broken, does feel pretty stale, hopping around the site makes me think they really haven't caught up with Java SE 5.0 yet, let alone Oracle taking over Sun/Java and the death of Applet Support.  I would therefore consider entirely dropping:
http://www.javacamp.org/designPattern/

In the spirit of "We don't need to be linking to sites that lost interest in Java when .Net 2.0 came out" we probably want to drop this too:
GoF patterns for .Net 2.0 by D&O Factory (WayBack Machine)
[url=https://web.archive.org/web/20070404092809/http://www.dofactory.com/patterns/Patterns.aspx" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.dofactory.com/patterns/Patterns.aspx

I was being really conservative when I left that in (and I had taken some pains to find it)...

This site isn%27t dead (but the link very much is, I couldn%27t find that material anywhere on their current site):
J2EE Patterns link list
http://www.javamug.org/mainpages/J2EE.html#J2EEpatterns

Ah, found it!  With zero sarcasm, it look like it was super-relevant in 2001, but by ten years ago or even longer back, they just decided to drop it rather than to try to update it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20110818205721/http://www.javamug.org/mainpages/J2EE.html
A very high percentage of all the links date from 2000/2001.

I don%27t feel qualified to say to how many people this link would still be relevant and useful, however, I can say the last time the link resolved for WayBack Machine was 2004 (!!!):
https://web.archive.org/web/20040621124950/http://www.simongbrown.com/publications/561x_12.pdf

I%27m done with the old (if people think we should just drop the ones mentioned above.  Everything left then is either a True Classic or Highly Current and Accessible (in both meanings) IMHO.

Then we can make it look prettier, if desired.
 
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