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A list of all my favourite types of Danish Pastries ...

 
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... would not include Tuna



Seen today at a bakery in Richmond Centre Mall, Richmond, BC, Canada
 
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How odd that you posted it on a day that I was at my In-laws, hearing about how someone's favorite lunch to prepare was tuna on cinnamon-raisin bread.

I'd be off the hook being able to claim, "Sorry, I'm vegan" but plenty of people who ate both tuna and raisin-bread regularly were somewhat aghast at the combination.

I did mention that growing up, the closest I came was ham-and-cheese on raisin bread.
We've had vegan ham for years, and after decades of no decent vegan cheeses there has been a Cambrian Explosion of good choices on both sides of the Atlantic.

I have *not* rushed to re-create this childhood memory.

So vegan tuna is now a thing, some pretty good ones are available.
It really isn't hard to make good vegan danishes, I am disappointed when they aren't available.

Agreed that I can happily wait 'til the end of time without complaining about not being able to get a Vegan Tuna Danish.
 
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Everything mentioned here sounds horrid
 
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It would be interesting to find out what the correct translation of that Chinese phrase was. Having six characters seems like a lot for a simple product like a Danish so I suppose there's a lot of room for mistranslation.
 
Ron McLeod
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Paul Clapham wrote:It would be interesting to find out what the correct translation of that Chinese phrase was ...


According to GooleTranslate 金槍魚 丹麥語
金槍魚 is Tuna, and 丹麥語 is Danish
 
Ron McLeod
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I went back to the bakery today .. now they have (hot dog) wiener danish.

 
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I went vegan for a few years, according to the people, nutritionists, I talked to, one was a strict vegan, any animal product or animal in your diet and you are not vegan, but only a vegetarian.  I finally decided i like dead cow slathered in BBQ sauce too much to really be a vegan.

Jesse Silverman wrote:How odd that you posted it on a day that I was at my In-laws, hearing about how someone's favorite lunch to prepare was tuna on cinnamon-raisin bread.

I'd be off the hook being able to claim, "Sorry, I'm vegan" but plenty of people who ate both tuna and raisin-bread regularly were somewhat aghast at the combination.

I did mention that growing up, the closest I came was ham-and-cheese on raisin bread.
We've had vegan ham for years, and after decades of no decent vegan cheeses there has been a Cambrian Explosion of good choices on both sides of the Atlantic.

I have *not* rushed to re-create this childhood memory.

So vegan tuna is now a thing, some pretty good ones are available.
It really isn't hard to make good vegan danishes, I am disappointed when they aren't available.

Agreed that I can happily wait 'til the end of time without complaining about not being able to get a Vegan Tuna Danish.

 
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I'm in the RBC (Reduced Body Count) camp, myself. If I ever had to slaughter my own, it would be meat-free forever. Although that's partly because I don't care for fowl. Roasting's too good for Canada Geese. Bastards.

Vegan's a bit much. Most common farm animals are mutants and actually have to do their jobs or suffer. Some breeds of sheep left unsheared will actually die. Nor do I believe that animals should live some sort of idyllic interference-free existence. I, too get exploited for a living, and few animals can live longer in the wild than under human care. It's why I don't like PETA. They don't love animals, they just hate humans. If they loved animals, they'd learn about what's best for the animals rather than commit atrocities on them in the name of "animal freedom".

The darker side of domestication is when you're the "unwanted gender". To get milk cows, you have to have calves and male calves become veal. To keep a supply of sterile egg-laying hens, you periodically have to launch a new generation. With unwanted male chicks.

Fortunately, recent advances are making such things less essential.

I could, as I said, live without meat (carbs, on the other hand…) But fake meat has been coming along well. While raw "hamburger" isn't very good, the top-of-the-line fakeburgers do cook up nicely. I used to be a Morningstar "sausage" addict (if anyone EVER mistook those for real sausage, I feel sorry for them). But apparently the formula wasn't vegan   and the new version is just nasty.

I really like some of the Gardein stuff. Their sweet-and-sour pork just about nails it.

Then, of course there's lab-grown meat and "3d printed" meat. Not yet a staple, but soon.

I don't like "vegan" recipes. There are plenty of traditional recipes that are inherently vegan, but when you start swapping in weird substitutes, I walk away. Ironically, though, I don't care for tofu because to me it's too much like chicken and I don't like chicken.
 
Paul Clapham
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Ron McLeod wrote:I went back to the bakery today .. now they have (hot dog) wiener danish.



So, just a sausage roll. With icing. But really, not so far from a Cantonese pork roll.
 
Tim Holloway
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Paul Clapham wrote:

Ron McLeod wrote:I went back to the bakery today .. now they have (hot dog) wiener danish.



So, just a sausage roll. With icing. But really, not so far from a Cantonese pork roll.



Meh. I refuse to accept anything presently mass-marketed in the USA as a sausage roll. If it's in bread instead of pastry or uses weiners (frankfurter sausages) or cocktail sausages, it's not really a sausage roll.

Roll up some ground sausage meat in pastry sheets and pop 'em in the oven. What could be simpler? But find them ready made???
 
Jesse Silverman
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Tim Holloway wrote:I'm in the RBC (Reduced Body Count) camp, myself. If I ever had to slaughter my own, it would be meat-free forever. Although that's partly because I don't care for fowl. Roasting's too good for Canada Geese. Bastards.

...

I don't like "vegan" recipes. There are plenty of traditional recipes that are inherently vegan, but when you start swapping in weird substitutes, I walk away. Ironically, though, I don't care for tofu because to me it's too much like chicken and I don't like chicken.



I just nodded at the other stuff, because it is all either obviously well-thought-out, subjective, or both.

But there is an entire world of tofu preparation and cookery, from about a century to most probably more than 2000 years old, that has literally spread around the globe over millennia.

There are many non-vegetarians, as well as vegans, that if upscale would be likely to order tofu dishes at mixed restaurants that can be among the pricier ones...

So while a fair number of chefs aiming at middle-class, generically cosmopolitan clientele will likely be largely preparing it to "taste like chicken" for people ordering it on their way to a Cardi B concert, thinking of that as archetypical in tofu cuisine would be at risk of extrapolating centuries of experience, which we do have historical and ethnographic data for, from work that is likely targeting someone who would be ordering food at Disney World.

Tho, now that it has come up to this degree, first I have to say that I meant food you'd get at stands there, not the fancier sit-down restaurants, and while I was thinking of that I remembered I don't even think THAT is true any more:
When I first went to Disney World as a vegan, I was angry and sad.  They had a few odd vegan things here and there but they often weren't any good.  The fancier restaurants would always at least make you what the vegan cast members would eat when they were there, even if it wasn't on any printed menu, and were generally really good.  But most people would never see that, they would just try something at one of the fast to-go walk-ups, and if it really sucked, would decide they had "tried vegan food, it was awful" for like the next five years.  Until totally randomly by the luck of the draw, something that was really good that happened to be vegan happened to fall into their mouth...

But the things they have added in the past ten years or so, I couldn't replace myself with something more likely to make someone decide "I tried some vegan food at Disney World, it was really good -- maybe I should be more open to it if someone is asking me to go somewhere I might have to eat vegan food, I guess, instead of saying no before they finish the sentence..."

So I started out there disappointed/frustrated, saw years of slow, discontinuous then more increasingly continuous improvement...

and wound up getting somewhere like this:
https://wdwnt.com/2019/10/review-new-ronto-less-garden-wrap-featuring-impossible-sausage-adds-vegan-option-to-ronto-roasters-at-star-wars-galaxys-edge-in-disneyland/

So, sorry Disney World -- I meant that you are trying to cater to a mainstream audience rather than that you do a poor job -- there have been too many great additions to count.

So...tofu...I have been in Vietnamese Groceries (larger, fully-featured ones), that probably had 12 kinds of tofu on tap, maybe at most of 8 of which I could eat as a vegetarian and 4 or 5 not..

I don't think more than 2 or 3 of those would "taste like chicken" any more than the jokes go about how everything and everyone "tastes like chicken"...

Since people here seem to appreciate works considered as Great Classics, these books taught a lot of crash courses in food history to a lot of people:
https://www.soyinfocenter.com/books-popular.php

There's a lot of newer books.  I probably have half a dozen of them that I haven't even read because my wife sees 60% recipes by volume in the text and they get filed with her cookbooks...

I don't like "vegan" recipes. There are plenty of traditional recipes that are inherently vegan, but when you start swapping in weird substitutes, I walk away.



Perhaps Design Patterns would be more appropriate than recipes, but just as there might be some natural ways to implement a Design Pattern in some languages that would look very different in others -- there are large collections of recipes that are really just implementing a Vegan adapter interface to food styles that people likely to be reading the books think of as "normal food".  The healthiest food they could possibly eat might more likely look nothing like what they think of as "normal food", that might be an eventual target, but when you see these things they are often again trying to bridge gaps between existing historical vegan-compatible food culture and where people are at, which could be "You know where they have great food??  State fairs!" -- wait, I think that is an actual example from real life...it was meant to be a joke, but I think it's been done...

So lots of people in certain cultures regularly ate Jackfruit in a "meaty" paradigm for a much longer time than the US has been its own country...it started becoming readily available here relatively recently -- it can be used in 15 ways for sure, but the people they are hoping to sell it to have no idea how...

how do we bridge that gap?  Lots of "Jackfruit recipes" aimed at people who never saw jackfruit before, but they generally would be called "vegan recipes" by me.

Admittedly, that is similar to "tofu" or "tempeh" or "miso" as a category almost...I feel like most people are likely to be looking for actual recipes rather than design patterns when buying more mainstream cookbooks...a lot of the better recipes are probably going to be presented in, or at least originate as code samples in relatively rarer vegan design patterns books...

I will read dozens of pages of text barely broken once in a while by a simple diagram or line drawing or low-res black-and-white photo.

So I re-read and realized what triggered me to write all this.

I don't like "vegan" recipes. There are plenty of traditional recipes that are inherently vegan, but when you start swapping in weird substitutes, I walk away.


traditional recipes that were inherently vegan are still very traditional to someone preparing them because that's how her grandma taught her grandma to make them...are weird swaps for people from other cultures.

A tremendous percentage of the scores of food-related books I have seek to adapt traditional knowledge and experience to the food lives of people buying american-unit or metric cookbooks written in English.  It is probably easily more than half of the books that I own with any food in them.  The ones covering the parts of the world where tofu was a thing generally feature it, some other don't.

It undermines my position, but of uncountably dozens of different tofu dishes I have eaten from around the globe, one of my favorites admittedly is Jerk Tofu.  There was a mixed Jamaican place near my workplace years ago, that made a Jerk Tofu with a side of rice and peas that was good enough to have me near tears more often than not.  My friends would drag me in there on days we were especially down, low-energy or frustrated, it was that good.

I never thought of the tofu as "tasting like chicken" in that dish, but admittedly most people hearing me order it would be thinking "you mean jerk chicken, right?" so that happens to be one dish where the whole preparation of the dish, and the selection of the tofu, was optimized to create a "Jerk Tofu Experience" that would be familiar to those just trying to find the best Jerk Chicken in the business-district-accessible parts of the city...

I've had several others that I would consider good to very good that weren't anywhere close.  They would have seemed just great had I not previously experienced one that was just sublime.

But yeah -- there are countless ways, traditional and adapted that tofu gets used (besides obviously cheesecakes, mango pudding etc.) that are culinarily Very Far From Chicken.

On the other stuff, if you just meant recipes like "Vegan spaghetti-o's and meatballs" 1 can vegan spaghetti-o's and one bag frozen vegan meatballs.  cook spaghetti-o's, cook vegan meatballs, stir and serve...I am glad there are those out there, and are probably helpful to some people who might be considerably less experienced in the culinary arts than we'd hope to be.

Happy Holidays, everyone!

EDIT -- in the specific case of Jackfruit (which isn't tofu) it is pretty mind-blowing to what extent tacos and burritos have won.  30 years ago you would only ever see it in Indonesian restaurants where it would likely appear in a vegan Rijsttafel option.  I surfed for a few minutes and was reminded how once you depart from the USA/UK/Canada, the percentage of tofu eaten by vegans or even vegetarians PLUMMETS -- non-vegetarians eat quite a lot of tofu (often in decidedly non-vegetarian dishes) -- I don't think it would be thought of as chicken-y in these applications.  If you run across them, you could find out and let me know -- I do strictly avoid non-vegan tofu dishes, even when they are beautifully prepared examples of traditional cuisines, because vegan.
 
Tim Holloway
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Sorry. When I say I don't like tofu, I don't mean that I've had restaurants serve me up tofu that I didn't like. I meant that I personally bought tofu and prepared it according to various recipes.

And if I liked chicken, I think I'd love those recipes. But for inexplicable reasons, I just completely lost my appetite for chicken in my late teens. Even barbecued. I'm a super-taster, incidentally.

I won't spit out tofu in a Chinese soup, if I encounter it. It's not vile, just not something I like.

Actually, I don't even consider tofu as a weird vegan sub unless it's trying too hard (tofu pot roast, maybe). Weird means "can't find it at the local grocers".
 
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Tim Holloway wrote:Sorry. When I say I don't like tofu, I don't mean that I've had restaurants serve me up tofu that I didn't like. I meant that I personally bought tofu and prepared it according to various recipes.

And if I liked chicken, I think I'd love those recipes. But for inexplicable reasons, I just completely lost my appetite for chicken in my late teens. Even barbecued. I'm a super-taster, incidentally.


Got it, tho I still feel that I have had a LOT of tofu dishes where while opinions would naturally vary "Tastes Like Chicken" would be exceptionally rare of a response.

I won't spit out tofu in a Chinese soup, if I encounter it. It's not vile, just not something I like.


Okay, that does underscore the point I made, because there are many tofu dishes where the tofu is about as demure, shy and retiring as Limburger cheese, including of course, the dish who's name seems to be translated into English most commonly as "Stinky tofu".  Maybe not quite Durian territory, but very close.

So, it might turn out that you wouldn't like any of them either, but there are numerous preparation and cooking methods far away from what we usually see in more mainstream restaurants.  I avoid eating at restaurants where nobody else is ordering in English or that they don't have menus in English unless they are all vegetarian or I am dining with someone who is ordering for us -- it is way too easy to have unpleasant accidents otherwise...I feel like even if you hated them, you would be unlikely to be thinking of chicken...


Actually, I don't even consider tofu as a weird vegan sub unless it's trying too hard (tofu pot roast, maybe). Weird means "can't find it at the local grocers".



That's such a rolling definition!  At least in major cities, My diet has gone from 85% weird to like 10% weird, partly because I am eating a little less healthy but partly because some mix of ethical and ethnic vegetarians have changed what now shows up at local grocers...if I ate exactly the same things the change would be from like 85% to about 20% or so, the other 10% comes from overlap of time shortages with wide availability of vegan convenience foods -- actually those would have been considered weird too, just less healthy, if you could even find them anywhere....my diet has gone from about 85% weird to about 10% weird as things I used to have to learn lore and legend and go on adventures to obtain are now readily available at some quality or another, thru ultra-convenient mass marketing.

It was weird to me seeing billboards for vegan meat substitutes in Kansas, but people said "Do you have any idea how many soybeans we grow around here??  We don't need to advertise them to COWS to get them to eat them, so we have those ads for you..."

All good points, I really dived down the rabbit hole on the current north american versus global historical conceptions of tofu culture.  Didn't realize I'd felt strongly about it until I read the stuff in the preview.
 
Tim Holloway
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I suppose I should qualify. My "local grocers" include tiendas, Indian and oriental (yes, they sell durian!) and East European stores. The stuff I was referring to, however, isn't generally found outside of "Health food stores". So not stuff like adzuki beans, moth beans, hing or bitter melon. Or, for that matter, epazote (I grow it along with curry tree leaves). Definitely not paneer - which I not only love, but sometimes make myself (using lime juice).

The things I count as weird are practically chemical in their own right and often seem to be subs for more commonplace ingredients out of perversity more than actual need. When brown rice flour isn't good enough, for example.
 
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As much as I've grown to like it, and I think my attitude of 30+ years ago, "I only like it in a couple of potato dishes" was way too restrictive, I actually would call asafoetida/hing "weird" because it will freak out 90-95% of North/Central/South Americans when you pull it out during gathering of ingredients.

I feel the term "acquired taste" is overused, but here I am all for it.

The history is absolutely fascinating, but when it came into my life via. Indian cooking, it might as well have been from another planet:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asafoetida

I also grew up in a tofu-free culture, but since then have been exposed to a zillion different takes on tofu that had been going off in their own different directions for many centuries,  and it is arguably a lot more important as a food source than hing.

Bitter melon is the only food I've eaten that was so painful I cried.

In a poorly lit restaurant, I mistook bitter melon for okra (which wasn't too weird in context) and took about five or six times as much as I'd normally eat of it.

I hate wasting food, so I finished it, but bitter melon is another thing that can be called an acquired taste without fear of wearing the phrase out.  I eat it in a salad that has some other very strong balancing flavors, including raw purple onion which is probably not even the strongest flavor in there...I'd again think at least 90 to 95% of people born in the States would consider it "weird".

I support people trying to come up with clever new solutions for safe, healthy, effective ways to feed people, but there is also a lot to be learned from global history -- in both cases there are often high barriers to acceptance based on perceived "weirdness", I think.  You wind up with some people adopting them because "weird" or at least "really open-minded" is part of their personal brand, so they experiment more than others are willing to.

I've often said I'd eat (or at least try) anything vegan and have tried to stick to that.
My worst experience by far was with Vegemite (or a variant).  I was warned it would be strong, and took about 8 or 10 times as much as whatever I put it on could handle...I told them that they should have instead told me "It was really, really, really strong, be extremely careful."  It was in the Netherlands and might have been a Dutch strain of vegemite, if I recall correctly, or at least one that was relatively readily available there in the mid 90's.

 
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Large purple onions are sometimes called "salad onions" because they are typically fairly mild. Not at all weird and very plentiful around here. Some claim you can eat them like apples, but I think that's pushing it. Smaller purple onions, I think are used in India, but don't use me as an authority.

For apple-eating onions, probably the star is the Vidalia Onion. Vidalia, Georgia is about 120 miles NNW of here, but similar soils exist, it appears, since "Saint Augustine Sweets" are what they got called locally after Vidalia went D.O.P. on the label. I don't actually like them, but many, many people do.

BTW, tried some Jamaican-style beef pasteles last night (basically empanadas with fancier crust) that were made with Beyond Meat and it kind of confirmed my opinion of the fake beef state of the art. They tasted like grilled hamburgers. Problem is, if you cook up shredded or minced beef with Caribbean spices, it should not taste like grilled hamburgers. Not as much Maillard, I suspect. So there's work to be done.
 
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