• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
programming forums Java Mobile Certification Databases Caching Books Engineering Micro Controllers OS Languages Paradigms IDEs Build Tools Frameworks Application Servers Open Source This Site Careers Other Pie Elite all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
Marshals:
  • Campbell Ritchie
  • Jeanne Boyarsky
  • Ron McLeod
  • Paul Clapham
  • Liutauras Vilda
Sheriffs:
  • paul wheaton
  • Rob Spoor
  • Devaka Cooray
Saloon Keepers:
  • Stephan van Hulst
  • Tim Holloway
  • Carey Brown
  • Frits Walraven
  • Tim Moores
Bartenders:
  • Mikalai Zaikin

Which job offer should I choose?

 
Ranch Hand
Posts: 48
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Location: Germany - Munich
Developer Experience: 2 years

offer 1:
  • Big Company - 150.000 employees
  • 62.100 € /year
  • 180 km (111 miles) round trip when drive to office (1:10 hour to office and 1:10 back to home)
  • 51% work in office and 49% home office
  • limited learning in a big project


  • offer 2:
  • Little Company - 16 employees
  • 67.000 € /year
  • 100 % Home office
  • high learning potential on several smaller projects


  • a big company is definitely better in my opinion but i don't want to drive a lot and lose my lifetime on the street.
    What would you choose and why?
     
    Saloon Keeper
    Posts: 7585
    176
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
      Number of slices to send:
      Optional 'thank-you' note:
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Why do you think a big company is better?

    More than 2 hours commute each day would be a non-starter for me, even if I had to do it just twice a week. By train, maybe, but not by car, and not every day.

    I dislike large companies, as one is often too far removed from decisions that directly impact your work. Plus, in small companies you generally learn a lot more about other aspects of the business (sales, marketing, finance etc.)

    I started my career in a multi-national conglomerate, and didn't like it. Ever since, I haven't worked at companies with more than 150 employees (and some much smaller), and have never looked back.
     
    Sheriff
    Posts: 5555
    326
    IntelliJ IDE Python Java Linux
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
      Number of slices to send:
      Optional 'thank-you' note:
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    The big / small company is definitely personal preference. I spent a lot of time working for a large (~2000 employees) fintech giant and there were a lot of good things about it. There was plenty of budget for sending you to conferences and training courses which is really good when you're fairly fresh into the job as you are. However, it was my experience that with a big company exposure to the bigger picture was limited, even exposure to the full solution was limited. I was a Java Engineer which was cool but my scope of influence was narrow because when working on larger projects you end up developing your own part and then managing job tickets with other teams for database changes, network changes, server resources, configuration management. None of the other teams really care about your project and view your requests with heavy suspicion, especially any team with security featuring high on their set of values.

    When I joined my current company there were about 25 of us in the whole company, and probably less than 10 in Engineering. It's a different ballgame altogether but it suits me better. When interviewing for new engineers I like to tell them "You will have the freedom to do what you think is best, and the burden to actually do what you think is best", which really highlights the fact that there are no other teams to do it for you so you'll have to actually do the work yourself. If learning is your thing and thrive on the challenge of rolling your sleeves up to do something you've never done before then a smaller company might be the right fit for you.

    Also, as Tim says, you'll have much more visibility to what's going on in the company in general which will help greatly with your understanding of why you're doing what you're doing. You might even have direct contact with the customer, i.e the users of your software, which is less likely in a large company. In fact in the large company I worked for, who operated a financial trading platform, any contact with the customer, the traders, was forbidden because it would likely be viewed by the regulator as insider trading.

    I can't tell you which job offer to choose, I can only speak of my own experiences.

    Best of luck in your decision.
     
    Saloon Keeper
    Posts: 27764
    196
    Android Eclipse IDE Tomcat Server Redhat Java Linux
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
      Number of slices to send:
      Optional 'thank-you' note:
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    I've worked in large companies and startups and each have their pros and cons. Large companies are full of overpaid self-important idiots who have fancy managerial titles and are generally annoying. On the other hand, you can find a comfortable niche and plenty of support and often a better budget. When they're not wasting it on fads, anyway. Big companies are suckers for "silver bullet" fads and Dogberts.

    Small companies have the advantage that you can have more direct control over what you do. Fewer people means fewer idiots. But you may need to juggle more job functions with less of a budget. Then again, since Y2K, that can often also be said of large corporations.

    Often a small company offers a smaller salary with the (often-unfulfilled) promise of bigger incomes as the company grows. But in your case, not so. So that's one strike against.

    For me the killer would be the commute. Unless it's very affordable and there is convenient mass transit, it's a complete deal-breaker for me. If I can ride the bus/train and read or something and not stand out in the weather waiting, fine, but if my attention is on driving, I've already done considerable work before I even step in the office. And I hate to drive. All that and a lower salary, as well? Nope.

    I've had recruiters push jobs because "they'll give you great exposure/look good on your résumé". I turned them down. I'm doubtful that it really helps in IT whether you've worked for IBM or Oracle. People I've known who did work at big-name places never showed any particular magic other than perhaps a certain rigidity because the big-company culture prizes uniformity over brilliance as a rule.
     
    Tim Cooke
    Sheriff
    Posts: 5555
    326
    IntelliJ IDE Python Java Linux
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
      Number of slices to send:
      Optional 'thank-you' note:
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    The idiot problem is a double edged sword.

    In a large company while the idiot likelihood is greater, they can usually be ignored or at least tolerated because their impact on your day to day is often limited. However, in a small company a single idiot in a position of relative power can be catastrophic. Of course a single idiot in a large company can also be catastrophic if they're in your immediate vicinity.

    It's another example of how your scope of impact is different in small and large companies. In my experience, you have a much greater affect on the business as a whole in a smaller company whether that be positive or negative. If you do excellent work it will be plainly obvious to all those around you that you've done excellent work, but the converse is also true, if you're not pulling your weight or are doing poor work it will also be plainly obvious to those around you. You have greater opportunity to shine but also nowhere to hide. Tim H said the word "comfortable" which I have observed as true in large corps, you can find yourself a nice quiet corner and tinker away your days just nicely.
     
    Tim Holloway
    Saloon Keeper
    Posts: 27764
    196
    Android Eclipse IDE Tomcat Server Redhat Java Linux
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
      Number of slices to send:
      Optional 'thank-you' note:
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    It does somewhat depend. My most notable large-company niche was a position where if I didn't do my job right, the application programmers wouldn't be able to edit, compile, or test programs, the accounting department would have to break out the pencils and paper and the computer operations staff wouldn't be able to keep the mainframe fed with work. Among other things.

    Large or small, one of the annoyances of being competent with computers is that nobody thinks that you're doing anything.

    So I'd routinely dealt with a lot of high-level idiots. Also, I should add, some pretty decent people, but as the company got even bigger, more layers of idiots got added.

    And yes, I've worked in a small startup where the idiot was the CEO, and as a result, eventually, the whole thing collapsed.

    So I vote for the no-commute option.
     
    I'm not sure if I approve of this interruption. But this tiny ad checks out:
    a bit of art, as a gift, the permaculture playing cards
    https://gardener-gift.com
    reply
      Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
    • New Topic