WD: the developers are hired to write code, not to manage. It's the manager's job to do the managing - that's what she's paid for.
MH:This might very well be a difference in philosophy. I expect my developers to be able to manage their own time, and not need micro management.
There's a difference between management and micromanagement. Managing the developers' own time, I agree, is micromanagement. Setting things up so the developers can cooperate without stepping on each others' toes - that I consider to be management rather than micromanagement, and primarily the responsibility of the manager rather than the developers.
MH:We seem to be losing focus of the sub-thread here. I was replying to your point about coders
only writing code: personally, that not all they're responsible for( at least, when they work for me). I expect them to pull together, manage their time, get along with the team,
and be productive. It's actually not much to ask.
I think a good manager can help mentor these sorts of skills fairly quickly. However, we're not talking about quick-fixes here. A career is a lifelong endeavor, and should be invested in accordingly.
Kathy talks about the book being bought by new programmers. If the book were targeted at experienced programmers rather than new programmers, I'd have different opinions on what it should include.
MH:I think there's some confusion here: Kathy was talking about soft skills in the software biz. Then, she talked about newer programmers maybe not being attracted to books that teach those skills. That does not mean that the book would be solely targeted to newer programmers. Either way, this process( of professionalism), is one of the major milestones in gaining the sort experience you're talking about.
WD: On the topic of fixing other peoples' bad code? Can you mention a few?
MH:That's actually not what I was talking about.
Sorry I misinterpreted, then. You were responding to my comment about Fred's situation, which was about fixing other peoples' bad code, so I thought you were saying there were millions of books about that situation - fixing other peoples' bad code.
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MH:Ah. I actually couldn't quite follow what you meant, which is why I stated the assumption I was working under:
I assume you meant writing bad code. There
are many, many books that teach you how to do that.
I've read a couple of the books on that list, and they're not actually what I'm talking about.
MH:I believe you were talking about
the topic of fixing other peoples' bad code?
They are about rewriting/refactoring code that's bad, or about writing better code in the first place. I've found that usually one only has that luxury with one's own code. When dealing with a, usually very large, legacy code base, one normally doesn't have the time to clean up the whole thing, and the most important skill is identifying what bad code can be allowed to live for a while without being changed, which those books don't address.
MH:Actually, that sort of refactoring advice is exactly what you'll in a lot of those books.
The Demeyer book has a hopeful title, though; I haven't read that one.
WD: We need books that teach the values of curiosity, generosity, concentration, and the down-to-earth practicality of everyday niceness.
As long as it's balanced by firmness.
MH:This may, again, be a philosophical difference. I've found that firmness is best when people apply it to themselves, as opposed to having it imposed on them. I try to manage accordingly.
Are you talking about the developers, or the managers?
MH:I'm following your thread of discussion, which was dealing with the manager's responsibilities. I'm an advocate of the teach-the-man-to-fish approach of management.
WD: I'm talking about the developers (again, if the thread were a book for managers, I'd have different comments). Developers who are nice to other developers but not firm end up giving in and doing things the other developers' way even when it's a bad idea, resulting in code that doesn't work. Thus, developers need firmness as well as niceness when dealing with other developers.
MH:I've found that a Developer can't really go wrong by being helpful: worry about it like worry about working out, because you don't want to get 'too big': it's a problem most people should aspire to

.
IMO, helping your fellow programmers is good for your professional image, it's good for your knowledge-base( you'll learn more about what your peers are dealing with), it gets noticed by management, and it's good for your Karma. Of course, most anything done to
excess is a bad idea, by definition.
best regards,
M