I believe that most of the modeling activities happening around me is a waste of time. Well, maybe not a waste of time but non-optimal use of time in any case. No, I don't go straight into coding. I model, but only enough to reach an agreement with the team that we're thinking about the same structure and agree on the responsibilities. None of that modeling ever ends up into documentation.Does anyone here beleive that modelling is a waste of time. There for you just go straight into coding?
Dearly. I would never give up my whiteboard and sketch pad.Or do you value your modelling tools?
No, I don't.Do you use IDE's which support the 12 UML diagrams?
Huh?Dou you find this useful?
How do you define failure? We always deliver the software, mostly on time and when the schedules go bang it's not like we're 50% late. There was one huge project I participated that went really bad (the architecture was a joke, and reading the code made grown men cry...) but the reasons for that were to a great deal on the client-side (including some bad vendor selection decisions) and we actually got very much praise for being there to keep things from falling apart completely. The modeling that had taken place in that project before me was mostly a waste of time, I think. It was done using all the typical Big Dollar tools and the monstrous process required documentation for documentation's sake. Thank god it's over.Do your projects deliver or fail?
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Originally posted by Marcus Raphael:
Round tripping: Now can be automated within an IDE.
This means change can be successfully managed with IDE's with products like Borland Together ControlCenter.
Coding stage is only meant to take 20% of the whole lifecycle, would you say you succeed this? Do you consider the modelling phase to be a completely seperate stage of the lifecycle?
Kyle Brown, Author of Persistence in the Enterprise and Enterprise Java Programming with IBM Websphere, 2nd Edition
See my homepage at http://www.kyle-brown.com/ for other WebSphere information.
Well, I haven't yet found a real need for round-trip CASE tools such as Rational Rose. Sure, it's nice to be able to tweak the code in both "views", but it's always been faster to just do it in Eclipse, for example. Yes, I think it's an advancement and a nice-to-have feature if an IDE can switch between "UML" and "Code" views and keep both in sync. I just personally don't feel the need.You did not comment on your opinion towards the automation of rond-tripping.
You dont see the potential in this?
I think it is a significant advancement!
Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:
Well, I haven't yet found a real need for round-trip CASE tools such as Rational Rose. Sure, it's nice to be able to tweak the code in both "views", but it's always been faster to just do it in Eclipse, for example. Yes, I think it's an advancement and a nice-to-have feature if an IDE can switch between "UML" and "Code" views and keep both in sync. I just personally don't feel the need.
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Marcus Raphael:
Do you consider the modelling phase to be a completely seperate stage of the lifecycle?
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Originally posted by Marcus Raphael:
Does anyone here beleive that modelling is a waste of time. There for you just go straight into coding??
Do your projects deliver or fail?
The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of the idea. John Ciardi
Originally posted by J You:
I agree with above comment.
I'd say Modeling, OOD, Design Pattern etc are all GOOD things...they all look extremely RIGHT in textbook, but in reality I don't think they really help us that much (sure I am talking from my own experience)
If we have a lot of time to kill, I'd like to spend some time on the diagrams and documents - it doesn't help the coding, but makes me "feel good" ...But most time, we are in tight skedule, and most pain come in the second half of the process, and most time are not spent on coding, but "communication", not with your fellow programmers, but with clients, business managers, DBA, migration team, testing team ....
Kyle Brown, Author of Persistence in the Enterprise and Enterprise Java Programming with IBM Websphere, 2nd Edition
See my homepage at http://www.kyle-brown.com/ for other WebSphere information.
kktec<br />SCJP, SCWCD, SCJD<br />"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
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