Keith Thompson

Greg,

I posted question just the other day. Nobody repsonded. That is because the forum is a defacto "Indian Job Discussion".

Yes - I will find a different community. I have no interest in "being nice" to foreign IT workers. And the moral high ground does not belong to those people who "are nice" about this issue. I know people who lost their homes,lost their marriages, lost their careers and their life savings due to jobs sent to India. Where is your "be nice" effort for the people who have been driven into the ground by offshoring?

Andrew -

I have your book in my Amazon shopping cart! I do plan to buy your book - so I hope it gets published as scheduled. I want to get closure on my developer cert exam. It is cool to see your name here!

As for the "USA Jobs Discussion" here is my take on it:
For my peers(software developers who are USA citizens who work in the USA) I would like to hear what they have to say & participate in such a forum. This would be useful to me.

For people who are not my peers (people in India, Pakistan, China ) - I have no interest in communicating with them about "jobs discussion' or for that matter do I have any interest in participating in any sort of "meaningful discussion between different cultures". This is JavaRanch.com and the topic is "jobs discussion". Not LovingOtherCultures.com and wanting to "get in touch with my inner self and becoming more welcoming & loving to other cultures".

Their agenda is to find work and make more money. I can certainly understand that, as my agenda is the same. Why should I be expected to, or even want to, live to a higher and more noble standard of participating in a "generic forum that they(Indians & Chinese) can post in and get support?"

There is a federal funded workplace study currently underway from the National Science Foundation documenting the potential reasons why women are leaving the Information Technology field in the USA. (There has been a dramatic decline in the past several years.) One of the subject topics is along the lines of "hostile working environment potentially caused by additional men from other cultures who have entered the American IT workplace".

And I don't perceive other views as attacks. My writing style happens to be cryptic(and I admit sarcastic and bitter). Other people can think whatever they want & the owners of JavaRanch have a first amendment right to say/print whatever they want.

I have never lived in China, but my friend has. She told me she seen train robbers get shot without a trial(in a rural area). This is an example of different cultures, has nothing really to do with "jobs discussion".

Keith

and yes - I have worked abroad for international companies. I can still remember going home every single day and washing the smell of cigarette smoke off myself & my clothes. Even the papers in my briefcase smelled like cigarette smoke. Here in the USA we stopped that nasty workplace issue more than 20 years ago.

Mark,

I disagree with you also. You say that "... How to deal with peers, managers, career paths, etc tend to be more similar than different."

That is my point. For those topics, the difference is so dramatic you might as well be on different planets!

Peers:
Again, the relationship with peers is dramatically different. The culture in India is different from Chicago. In the USA there are things not permitted in the workplace. In Chicago, when men say stuff(loudly so that a few hundred people can hear it) like "Our female VP really has great breasts - that is how she got her job" and "That business analyst on the 2nd floor hasn't had any sex lately, that is why she is such a bitch" - they might actually get canned (If they work in a corporate environment and somebody has the guts to report them.)

In India - ?
In China - ?

Deeling with managers:
The things a manager in Chicago might actually like & encourage, gets you in prison in China. In the USA you could put "volunteer Leader of Planned Parenthood Charity Drive" or "President of the local chapter of Amnesty International" or something similar to show some leadership ability.

In India - ?
In China - ?


Career Paths:
For China & India, there are whole demographic sections of socity that have NO career path in IT. Women? Handicapped people?

Finance in IT:
In China, if you are responsible for an IT budget, and money disappears they shoot you(no - this is not an exageration). in the USA you might get a trial(and probably India too).

If you don't want a "USA Discussion Forum" that is fine. But I just wanted to make note of my opinion regarding a "planet earth" jobs discission.

Keith

P.S. And I almost forgot about interview questions! There are whole sections of interview questions that are ILLEGAL in the USA, but are customary in India. For example, a HR person in Chicago would never ask these questions - >
How old are you?
How many children do you have?
[ November 26, 2005: Message edited by: Keith Thompson ]

Greg,

I disagree. It makes sense for JavaRanch to have a "Servlets" or "JSP" forum for everybody on planet earth. Because servlets & jsp work the same all over the planet.

But the difference between jobs in the US & India & China is so dramatic that they can't even hardly be compared. Having a "Jobs Discussion" for jobs on planet earth doesn't seem logical.

Greg - If I only want my peers (software developers who are citizens of the USA) to respond to my post - how exactly would I indicate that in the post title?

Keith

K Riaz & Svend Rost - make fun of it if you want.

I have been a software developer since 1989, and I can tell you when it comes to the topic of "Jobs Discission" the personal experiences I have had in the past and the personal experiences I will have in the future are so dramatically different than the experiences of someone in India & China - that to assume the topic of "Jobs Discission" means to be inclusive of everyone one planet earth, it just doesn't make any sense. It becomes jibberish.

Of course, java is the same in India & China & the USA. Of course, the technology is EXACTLY the same.

However a forum for "Jobs Discission" is as different as night and day.

Some of the things I do to promote myself and my IT career here in the USA workplace, would put me in prison in China.

Some of the cultural things that a developer in India would do to promote themselves, make themselves more employable in the Indian workplace are useful and rational and effective in India, however it could become grounds for civil suits and fines levied against corporations here in the USA.

This does not mean people in one country are better than another. It means the cultural, economic, and legal environment are profoundly different when on the topic of "Jobs Discussion".

Keith

Question for Bartenders -

Can we get a new forum "USA Jobs Discussion" for people who work in the USA?

And no, I am not being racist or evil or whatever.

It makes sense to have a seperate and new forum for workers in the USA.
The working environment, the labor laws, the economy, the workplace environment, the corporate environment, the tax laws and the educational systems are so dramatically different from the USA vs India vs China that to lump them all into one pot doesn't serve any purpose.

Keith

I am seeking research on the lack of women in the IT field. (In the USA)

Is anyone here familiar with documented studies/research on this topic? If so, could you provide me a link?

/////////////////////////////////

Also, how would I obtain hard evidence about the gender of people who have passed certification exams (again - for people in the USA). For example, for the SCJP exam, how many total people have passed? And how many of them are women?

And also, for the various IBM certifications(like the XML one) - how can I find out how many total people have passed? And how many of them are women?

thanks,
Keith

Here is what happens:

Step 1.
Company ABC needs 20 java developers. Company ABC has a policy that multiple resume submissions for the same person are thrown away. (This is the norm in the IT industry.) They throw them away because they don't have time to be involved in disputes betweeen recruiters. They pay 10% of the first year salary to any recruiter who brings them somebody they actually hire ($10,000)

Step 2.
Mark H. puts his resume on the internet.

Step 3.
EvilRecuiter1 wants his $10,000 and so he grabs a copy of Mark's resume, puts his info on the resume top and submits to Company ABC. Mark H has no knowledge of this.

Step 4.
EvilRecruiter2 wants his $10,000 and so he grabs a copy of Mark's resume, puts his info on the resume top and submits to Company ABC. Mark H has no knowledge of this.

Step 5.
Mark sees that Company ABC needs 20 java developers, and sends his resume to Company ABC. He should be qualified and he is a perfect match! When he gets no response, he calls HR who tells him he is not going to be considered for any job, he can't even control the most basic things in life, things like who/what/where is his resume? They have received THREE resumes from Mark H. Good grief!

Question for Mark:

You said you "searched for resumes on major web sites (Monster, HotJobs, Dice, Craig's List, and America's Job Bank). I literally grabbed hundreds of resumes and started contacting them."

Just curious - Can you think of any reasons why a developer whould not put their resume on-line? (Have a policy of not ever doing this.)

Keith

Do you mean Cybernet Systems Corporation, the Department of Defense contractor based in Michigan?

I met their people at a Department of Defense/Federal Government innovative research conference the week before last.

As for their reputation, I don't know. I do know they are developing a number of products for the Department of Defense. And as such, generally this type of work can not be sent abroad nor performed here by people who lack US citizenship. (good news for some of us.)

I am seeking advice here.

Which of these certifications is more in demand?

CISSP
CISA
or something else?

If I only had time/energy/money to work on one of them - which would be the one I should select?

thanks,
Keith

thanks!


Do you know of any documentation for this? I looked all over but I could not find anything.

thanks!
Keith

I guess I worded my question wrong. Yes - I am using an anonymous class.

I was just curious if other people agreed with my observations? This has nothing to do with generics or other new features of jdk1.5.0, it is just a plain & simple anonymous class compilation.

This is my observation about anonymous class compilation with jdk1.5.0 beta - >>
///////////////////////

This is the naming convention for compiled anonymous classes with jdk1.4.2:
className.java
className.class
className$1.class


This is the naming convention for compiled anonymous classes WITH jdk1.5.0 beta:
className.java
className.class
className+1.class


do other people agree with this?

thanks,
Keith
[ May 31, 2004: Message edited by: Keith Thompson ]

I am compiling a java program with jdk1.5.0 beta.

I get a compiled class file with this name ==>
className+1.class

(And YES - it executes fine. My question is just related to the naming convention for compiled class names in jdk1.5.0).

I guess the "+1" means there is an anonymous class somewhere within my program?

Didn't anonymous class files used to be compiled with a naming convention that ended with a dollar sign "$" like this? ==>
className$.class

thanks,
Keith
[ May 31, 2004: Message edited by: Keith Thompson ]

OK!

This is all very interesting. I was curious what people here had to say about reasonable time estimates. My own personal opinion was 3-4 months.

But actually, I had a piece of information that I withheld => What happened is that he was given 3-4 days to do it - and when he couldn't get it done in 3-4 days he was fired.

Life is very harsh for Java developers these days.

Keith